Episode 117 Refuse Fascism

Mon, 7/4 5:12PM • 39:54

Coco Das 00:00

Well, I think we’re gonna look back on this moment and this week as a watershed moment in history. It’s quite shocking that half of humanity has lost basic rights. I think most people have not given up, but it’s going to take work. This is a moment of reckoning, and we all have to really ask ourselves, what kind of world do we want to live in?

Sam Goldman 00:38

Welcome to Episode 117 of the Refuse Fascism podcast, a podcast brought to you by volunteers with Refuse Fascism. I’m Sam Goldman, one of those volunteers and host of the show. Refuse Fascism exposes, analyzes and stands against the very real danger and threat of fascism coming to power in the United States. 

Thanks to everyone who goes the extra step and rates and reviews our show on Apple podcasts or shares and comments about episodes on social media or YouTube. It helps us reach more listeners and we need every one. So today I’m sharing two comments. First, I want to give a shout out to Alicia Mendez for tweeting, “I came across this interview by Refuse Fascism with Susanna Chiaroti, the Latin America Regional Liaison for the Sisterhood is Global Institute. We can learn from the mobilization in Latin America. Gracias hermana.” I agree. I learned a lot from that episode. Also, Alicia, go check out the interview that Coco did with Marcela Garcia. You’ll really enjoy it. I learned a lot from that one, too. 

Also wanted to give a shout out to @ProDemocracy1st, who tweeted, “Very special guest Wajahat Ali on Refuse Fascism with Sam Goldman. Thank you for your tireless fight. Let’s all do what we can. Join with them.” Thanks for being part of this community @ProDemocracy1st, and yes, let’s join together. So after listening, go help us find more people who want to refuse fascism by sharing, commenting on social media, and very importantly, reading and reviewing on Apple podcasts or your platform of choice.

Sam Goldman 02:42

Before I share today’s interview, we’ve gotta take a quick sec to talk about the all-consuming dumpster fire on wheels that was this past week at the Supreme Court, and touch on some of the immediate effects in our first week without Roe, effects that will continue to unfold and multiply until legal abortion is restored nationwide. I don’t mean that as a passive statement. I mean, we got to get out there and demand that the federal government restore legal abortion nationwide now! 

Last Friday’s decision by the Supreme Court to overturn Roe hit us all hard. No matter how much we saw it coming, none of us could be fully prepared for the full weight of the cruelty of this ruling, and the outrage, fear and pain it would provoke. This needs to be seen for what it is. They have unleashed unprecedented fascist violence against women and girls and people of reproductive capacity. They have declared to the world that we are nothing more than incubators, and our lives are not our own. 

I encourage people to go back to episodes we have ran on our show where we’ve talked over and over about this topic, delving deep into this emergency and how this undoing of a nearly 50-year constitutionally protected civil and human right fits into an overall Christian fascist program. So go back and listen, look through, you’ll know which ones they are the titles are clear, and listen. 

In an effort to not add to any confusion on an already confusing hellscape of abortion access, I wanted to let people know that the resource that I used to share information about the abortion law landscape was Politico. On that site, they have legal scholars saying this is extremely confusing and, very importantly, it is constantly changing terrain. So these words that I shared are not in stone and might have changed since the time it was recorded. So if you are in need, or someone you love is in need of abortion services, please go to ineedna.com because it might have changed in your state, and we will share more resources in the future regarding the truth.

Sam Goldman 05:19

Immediately after the decision was announced, abortion providers had to close their doors and began canceling appointments. Desperate women and girls across the country saw the walls begin to close in around them. Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota, have implemented laws and trigger bans that make abortion illegal With few exceptions. The number of those with exceptions for cases of rape and incest is zero. In three other states, Arizona, West Virginia and Wisconsin, confusion about the enforceability of pre Roe bans has led all abortions to cease.

As I’ll continue to go on this list of ever changing bans and upcoming bans creates massive confusion and is very difficult to track and know where, when to get an abortion, for everyone. Louisiana and Utah are states where it will soon be illegal. Tennessee, Mississippi, Idaho, North Dakota and Wyoming have bans that will come into effect in the coming weeks, eliminating all abortion access in those states. Georgia is in the process of overturning injunctions against fetal heartbeat bills and will join Tennessee, Ohio and South Carolina in eliminating abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, as we know before, most people know they are pregnant, and this is on top of the Texas abortion ban. 

Several more states state governments are working to ban or severely restrict access to abortion. 18 states have laws in place that open the door to the prosecution of providers — and yes, pregnant women — who attempt abortions under a range of provisions. What are those provisions? Homicide, feticide, assault and child abuse. 13 states have introduced or passed legislation allowing private citizens to sue people who aid or abet abortion for financial renumeration. Yep, total Texas style. 

Various states are seeking to ban the abortion pill completely. In Kentucky a restraining order is allowing abortions to continue temporarily amid an ongoing lawsuit, but it is unclear how long the injunction will hold. I want you to hold in your mind in your heart, the 10 year old rape victim in Ohio who was forced to travel to Indiana at six weeks pregnant, she couldn’t access it in her state. The Doctor — I want you to keep her in your mind, in your heart — commented to the press that “It’s hard to imagine that in just a few short weeks, we will have no ability to provide that care.” And why did she say that? Because in Indiana, they are petitioning for a special session to get back early to outlaw abortion. This child, her story, it’s not an anomaly. She needs us. 
They all need us to fight for them, to fight for ourselves, to fight for the future. Right now. We are exactly a week after this fundamental right to control our bodies, our reproduction, our destinies has been stripped away by the highest court of the land. 

I’m really really glad to talk to Coco Das, who if you listened you’ve heard her before. She is a fellow member of the Refuse Fascism editorial board. More than that she’s a writer and just a really wonderful person who I’m glad to call a friend. She published a piece independent which will be linked in the show notes titled Roe has been overturned and women’s bodies are no longer their own in America, Here’s what to do now. It came out the day that Roe was overturned. I’m really glad to get a chance to talk to Coco so that we can process together what happened, step back a little bit, where did this come from? What does it mean for both the fascist movement and the people on this side of justice and kind of where do we go from here? So welcome, Coco. Thanks for joining me.

Coco Das 09:44

Thanks, Sam. Good to be here with you.

Sam Goldman 09:45

You started your piece with the fact that a five or a majority on the Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade, the landmark ruling that guaranteed American women a constitutional right to abortion. The message this sends to women and girls, not only in the US but all over the world is clear: You are not free. Your bodies are not your own. Your destinies will be shaped by the state, by the church, by men. Can you just tell us what are you thinking in this moment? What are you feeling? What do we need to understand about what happened last week that so many of us are just now able to process?

Coco Das 10:19

Well, I think we’re gonna look back on this moment and the week as a watershed moment in history. It’s quite shocking that half of humanity has lost a big right in 2022, that we’re going backwards, being hurled backwards so shockingly and so violently, when there are countries in Latin America that are going forward, and decriminalizing abortion. It needs to be seen in a context of the whole fanatical Christian fascist movement that has been working towards this victory for a long time. We have to put it in the context of this court that was transformed by a fascist president, Donald Trump, and I think the January 6th Committee is only proving what we in Refuse Fascism have been saying since December 2016, that this was a leap in fascism, and that that lawless, fascist president was the one who got to transform the Supreme Court and bring us to this moment where this ruling has come down along with a spate of other rulings that are basically telling you their program; that you’re rights don’t matter, even the Earth doesn’t matter, even the fate of humanity just doesn’t matter. 

People are making comments about how the Supreme Court is bringing on the end of the world, and it is alarming, and it is very serious, very dangerous. I do think that we’re seeing things coming to a head. On the other hand, I do think that it means something, it matters that Rise Up for Abortion Rights has been organizing to stop the Supreme Court from overturning rose in January, that you all were in front of the Supreme Court for two weeks, that there were Rise Up for Abortion Rights rallies happening all over the country, and that spontaneous protests broke out and some of them lasting, going day after day, three or four days and continuing into this week. So I’m happy to dig into this stuff with you, rather than just wallow in my own self pity.

Sam Goldman 12:06

Yeah, wallowing makes sense — I said to someone who was interviewing me earlier, I was commenting on the emotion that she heard in my voice, if you are not furious, if you are not sick at heart, and like really, really sad, not just for yourself, but for humanity, right now, you have either normalized this shit already, or you are on the side of the fascists and are celebrating it. If you’re neither, the fact that you and I weren’t surprised by the ruling, it didn’t soften the blow of this assault. It doesn’t change reality, the fact that you saw it coming. We take no pride, no joy, in saying we told you so. That is not a position we like being in.

It would be better, I’ll be honest, if more people listened to us, but you know, my outrage is not at the people primarily, it’s primarily in this court that as you said, was remade by Trump by fascists. This is a court that — this assault is, your right, one of many assaults on the people that they took on, and it’s really signaling the ushering in, in my opinion, of a new level of fascist threat. I think people got comfortable with pretending that it was all over; the fascist danger was over. We may have to deal with it a little bit in 2024, but we don’t need to deal with it right now. Do you feel like that’s a fair assessment? Maybe you see a different?

Coco Das 13:30

I agree. I think the way that the institutions were being transformed, the way that the federal courts were being transformed…one of the big things that Trump’s base was celebrating him for was the fact that he was transforming the courts. I mean, the record number of judges getting appointed, the three Supreme Court justices getting appointed. It’s sort of like, that was his main job, and he did it, and then it’s like, the victory continues, even with him out of office. Not to mention the fact that he’s not hasn’t been even indicted or prosecuted for actually inciting the January 6th riot. 

People got comfortable cause, I think they didn’t really want to confront the fascist threat in the first place. They didn’t understand that what fascism does, is it transforms all of government and society, so you don’t have the same institutions you had. You don’t have the same courts. So the way I’m thinking about it right now is that fascism has consolidated in different parts of society. Maybe it’s not hasn’t been through all of government, but there are places where it has really consolidated. The Supreme Court was one of them, certain school boards, certain states. I would say Texas is really on the way to fascism validation, very close, basically a one-party state,

Sam Goldman 14:40

Yeah. Texas, absolutely. And then Florida, I think I might put in that same category or a similar category.

Coco Das 14:48

Those are also the two states where the governors have also have their eye on national office. On top of that, I think that we are seeing how divided this society is; irreconcilably divided .You also see that with the protests. I’ve been part of protests here in Texas, and they’re really fierce. People are very angry. They’re really angry about SB8 (the Texas anti-abortion bill), they’re really angry about Roe falling, and there is a sort of visceral anger that’s at the point of, we’re just not going to take this anymore. It’s not spread widely enough, there are still too many fools sitting back and not coming into the streets. But of the people who are coming into the streets, many of them youth, many of them women and LGBTQ people, the anger is very justified fury, and it is really aimed at this fascist government that has been lording over people in Texas and causing atrocity after atrocity. Within that, there is some potential for something positive to break out of this, but not without struggle, and we are in for the fight of our lives.

Sam Goldman 15:51

I think you’re really right. It truly is a fight for our lives, and I appreciate the way that you were talking about it. You’ve been out on the ground in Texas, in this I have the fascist storm. If you could talk a little bit more about what you’ve been observing at these protests; things that you think are really important for listeners to know. It could be stories that people have told you, it could have been, you know, signs that stuck out to you, or really anything that you think should be shared?

Coco Das 16:18

Well, one is the the number of people who have come forward, especially young women who have come forward telling their stories of being raped, and either getting pregnant or luckily not getting pregnant, but sharing the pain of those stories. Just bringing out the misogynist culture that we live in that just like terrorizes young girl terrorizes women, and linking that to the right to abortion; how important is. A number of women that come forward and said they would have killed themselves if they had become pregnant and could not get an abortion.

We’ve heard stories of people who could not get out of state, couldn’t get the abortion pill, and they were forced to give birth, against their will, and they feel like surrogates, they can buy property. There’s been a young woman who was in an abusive relationship. She said she was raped every day of her marriage and gave birth to two children, and then was ready to get out of the marriage and became pregnant. At that point, she left. She went to a shelter and they gave her — she got an abortion pill. She said that abortion will save her life, because the abusive husband said: You can’t leave, you’re carrying my child. And she was able to say no, I’m not. And she was able to get her kids out of there and get out, and she’s been really courageous, telling her story.

So there’s been a lot of those kinds of stories. There’s been trans people who have come forward saying how important it is for them to be able to have the right to abortion without stigma. There have been men who have come forward saying that they’re speaking up for their daughters, they’re afraid for the lives of their daughters, and just people from all walks of life, all different ages. On the Friday of the ruling, there was at least 5000, maybe 10,000 people out there with us. We had a massive March. The next day we took pots and pans, and we banged them in the streets. It was still, I would say, more than a thousand people — I’m very bad at crowd count, but we spread the fury through the streets. 

One of the chants that they always like to say is fuck Greg Abbott. It’s a little bit of a unique situation here in Texas because we’ve been living under this for a long time. We’ve been living under a six week ban. Row was essentially overturned in September, and people did not flood streets, and there’s a lot of latent anger about that. There’s anger at the Christian fascists can pack this trio of Greg Abbott, Ken Paxton and Dan Patrick, but then where that gets channeled is we have to vote them out. Beto has been doing rallies, but even if Beto wins would not have a legislature that would let him do anything. In fact, there is a base here that is so hell bent on holding on to power and they are capable of violence, so it’s a very fraught situation here in Texas, where I often feel like we are already are in a kind of secession. 

We’re already in a kind of civil war with the federal government. Not we, but the state government is, and this fascist base. So it’s a very complex situation, but the other thing that has happened in the last week, you know, there were three days of protests in a row in Austin, which really, I think in 2020, that did happen during BLM protests, and then protests and continuing into the week, a lot of protests planned. Calls for this weekend, July 4th weekend, will really recognize how the irony of letting this country celebrate freedom and independence, a week after women have lost the right to their own bodies.

We’ve also been getting messages from all over Texas, different towns, different places, where people are taking to the streets in ways that really weren’t doing before, and in some pretty conservative parts of town. We also did a rally with a muse in a conservative County, a suburb of Austin, and the support we got was incredible. Just everybody honking — you really do see the pro choice majority out there when you stand up and you show people where you stand. So, it’s been interesting, it’s been complex, and I can tell you it’s it’s been a mixed bag of some exhilarating moments and some really heart wrenching moments.

Sam Goldman 20:03

A lot of what you were saying was resonating with me. Especially at the beginning, I was in front of the Supreme Court, and every day, at higher and higher frequencies, I would hear more and more stories of the rape culture in this country; the all around patriarchy, in particular rape, including childhood rape. And I brought that up, because there’s every reason — a just reason for an abortion, there is something though, to recognize about how they are able to now get through any ban without rape or incest exemptions, and it not be a thing; it is just normal protocol, and something that is now being normalized. That was something that stuck out to me, and I appreciate you going through the different ways that people are rising up and speaking out and taking action. 

I think that there’s that step where people do feel something when they see people step out and speak out. Oftentimes that is a compulsion, they see that they’re there, but sometimes it’s not, and you get the thumbs up, you get the good job. Part of that is that people do not see what we do in the streets as decisive in stopping a given fascist attack. That’s just my thought on it. In your piece, I wanted to return to one thing, you had written about how: “The anti abortion movement emerged out of a backlash against the gains of the Civil Rights Movement and the social progress of the last 50 years. They could not stand a world where women were not confined to the home, where black people were not subordinate to white people, and where LGBTQ people were out of the closet. The Christian fundamentalist fascist movement, which is now cohered behind a lawless President Donald Trump, is further emboldened to go after all, our innumerable [rights] with vicious vengeance.” Can you just walk us through…you talk about where it came from, and how it’s strengthened and cohered. Can you walk us through some of how you see them going forward since this victory for them?

Coco Das 22:05

Well, one is just in their smug gleefulness, which I just can’t stand on a gut level, like Ken Paxton saying that the fall of Roe should be a national holiday. That immediately, pre Roe laws went into effect in Texas. Abortion was already banned. Abortion clinics were shut down immediately in, I can’t remember how many states but Texas being one of them, Oklahoma, we can look up the list and put it in the show notes. 

Then there’s a whole host of other rulings that the Supreme Court has made, for instance, that the Miranda rights don’t matter; you don’t have to be registered right before you’re arrested. That innocence, doesn’t matter — if you’re on death row, evidence of innocence doesn’t matter — that can be kept from being entered into your appeal. And then this one that the EPA cannot enforce carbon emissions. I mean, it is really a spate of rulings. It’s hard to make sense of it, but it seems aimed at just leading us off the cliff. It’s aimed at a more blatant dictatorship, I guess, under this capitalist system, which is basically what fascism is, where the elections and the will of the people really don’t matter. That then is what’s just being strengthened and emboldened all over the country, in these red states. 

I don’t know if I really answered your question, but it’s hard to see how to stop them now. For a while we were saying: It’s much easier to keep a law on the books and get a right back after it’s been taken away. We know that and they know that. They’re not planning on giving the right back to us very easily, or any of the other rights they’re taking away. This is a huge victory. This is a massive victory for the fascist side, and then particularly that Christian fascist side. One that is energizing to them, and very demoralizing to the people. Unless we really, really, in on massive numbers, because we are actually in the majority, unless we can stand up and change this trajectory.

Sam Goldman 23:59

Yeah, I think that it is extremely ominous. They’re saying very clearly about what their intentions are — both the concurring opinion from Clarence Thomas regarding contraception, gay sex, gay marriage, but not only that, you have all the groups that are part of bringing this into being getting to work on criminalization measures, on measures to stop crossing state lines. You have all legislator after legislature moving to enact these trigger laws or creating new laws on the books, and each worse than the one before it. So I think that this is just the beginning. Even though this has been part of a long game for them — you had talked about them being energized — this is an accelerant for the rest of their program. 

You have taught me a lot about the role that vengeance plays when they’ve had a defeat of some sort, and then what fascists do if they get in power again afterwards, and I think that this is exactly that in real time. It’s extremely scary. But I do agree with you that you were saying it’s easier to keep a law on the books than it is to restore one that’s been overturned is true, but the second best time, besides before it goes down is right after. Before it gets normalized. So now really is a moment to seize, while people are still rightly raw with the implications and feeling that rage and feeling that sadness. Now is the time to seize with a demand. But I’m not going to lie to people, we have a serious fight on our hands to fight for the future. They’re winning, and we got to be real about why they’re winning. I wanted to give you a moment, if you want to talk about why are they winning?

Coco Das 25:43

I think one reason they’re winning is that they don’t understand that the fascists in power are tearing up all of the norms. Those norms do not exist anymore. So thinking that you can play by the rules and defeat them is just delusional. The White House has shown us even if you vote them out, can’t vote the fascism out. So if you’re just sitting at home, and you’re thinking, all you have to do is go to the ballot box — this is what the Democratic Party has been telling people for months, Roe is falling, just you know, we’re gonna hold them accountable in November — it’s too late. People should have understood that that was going to be too late. They did not call their base into this.

 When Rise Up for Abortion Rights started, what did all these vocal pro choice organizations tied to the Democratic Party do? Did they join us? Did they say this is worth a shot, let’s flood the streets, let’s try what they did in Latin America and let’s see if it works? No, they didn’t. They either ignored us or they kept preparing people for the post row reality. Even after the leak instead of saying: Okay, this is a chance, we have a window of time to really stop this. 

The prevailing message I got was: Well, this just shows that we were right all along, Roe is going to fall. Just the complete helplessness was a huge contributing fact to why we lost, and it’s very heroic that people have been getting in the streets beside us, but I’ve gotta say, there’s some responsibility to all the people who knew what we were doing, and for whatever reason, just decided that no, they were going to stick with this losing strategy, and preparing for a post Roe world. That’s one reason, and I’m sure there are others.

Sam Goldman 27:13

So, I think — I’m not just saying this as somebody who helped initiate it and was in the streets — I think that that we did make a difference, and we lost; both things can be true. It mattered that there was a force out there that was calling on people, because there was a chance that we could have changed this outcome. And when it happened last Friday, what would people have heard? What would people have seen if we weren’t there? I think is really worth reflecting on. 

So I did just want to join with that statement. And yeah, so we, as members of Refuse Fascism, you know, have thrown really deep into this fight, because it is a major battering ram and linchpin for this whole fascist program. We’re seeing the effects of it right now. We’re seeing the effects of a stacked fascist court. We’re seeing it and we actually need to carry this struggle forward; this struggle being around demanding the federal government restore abortion rights nationwide. In the midst of this, we’ve been hit with an attack, outright slander, from people who call themselves a coalition of grassroots organizers.

Coco Das 28:28

It’s shameful, it’s disgusting, at a time when actually tens of thousands of people were in the streets with Rise Up, and looking to us for leadership, which we provided. Without the Austin chapter of Rise Up for Abortion Rights, I don’t know who would have been there to lead the thousands of people who poured into the streets in Austin. The same thing happened after the leak. It just so happened that there were full organizers here who already had the analysis and we’re able to give people the guidance. It was gaining momentum. I’m not saying it won’t gain momentum again, but the timing of the attack, the outright viciousness of it, and the way that it’s spread in the culture, where people are not trained well in epistemology, they’re not trained well in how to know what’s true, they are not trained well, and how to look at evidence, and an accusation online becomes a guilty verdict, right. So it has really, really damaging effects. 

At the same time there are all the people out there who also don’t know what the hell is going on. They are completely unaware of any of this going on. It’s very small fraction of the so called movement. Part of who has been flooding the streets are not people who are movement active. They have not been in the streets. A lot of these young people especially, just found their way in protest, just became active. Some of the others, families that have come out there, they’re not considering themselves active, they just are in the streets at the right time, because that’s what’s needed. 

I personally came under attack, I’m sure you did, and it’s just not how you treat people, and how you treat people who are really standing up for humanity, who really care about humanity. We’re fighting for humanity, and I think that it reeks of desperation. I don’t know if we need, we need all of this analysis, but it really reeks of desperation. These are groups who stood aside. They didn’t do what was needed and we need to call that out. They didn’t join us. They didn’t try to stop Roe from being overturned. I don’t know how you can feel good about being part of that attack on the only organization that was actually bringing people into the streets to stop a horrible nightmare from unfolding all over this country. I don’t know how you feel about that.

Coco Das 28:51

Yeah, there was one person who had commented: I had started listening to their podcast, but now I know that truth. I felt like did what you hear on the podcast — this is the truth — what you hear when you come to a protest, what you hear when you listen to the podcast, what you hear when you talk to us on the streets, what you you see on our website and our social media, that is our record.

Coco Das 30:53

I think a big part of it is an anti communist hysteria. Because, you know, the main target of the attack was the RCP [Revolutionary Communist Party] and Bob Avakian and Sunsara Taylor, who is on the editorial board of Refuse Fascism, and was a key initiator of Rise Up, identifies as a Rev Com [revolutionary communist] and is a follower of Bob Avakian. So that frenzy, that hysteria, it’s so deeply rooted in not only in the history of this country, but in movements, social movements. All you have to do is say these buzzwords, and the mob mentality kicks in. 

It’s something I found here, where their actual experience with us meant absolutely nothing when this hysteria started. I think this is something that the progressive movement really is going to have to start taking on and finding their own way to put to a stop. It’s hurting everybody. It is hurting humanity. It’s hurting every single movement for social change, and it’s reached a fever pitch, that if we don’t actually change the way people are thinking about this, I don’t have much hope. I know we’re doing our part to change the way people are thinking about this, but there are many, many people that need social movements do not want that to be the way people behave.

Sam Goldman 32:05

So this is an invitation to all people of principle, all people who refuse fascism to actually step up and speak out and use your voice and platform and network to most fundamentally share the demand that Rise Up is putting out in the world, but as part of that, to condemn attacks and slander and lies that are being put on Rise Up for Abortion Rights, and in a way, it’s also put it up against us — us being Refuse Fascism — and say: This kills movements, this kills the fight at a time where the fight is needed more than ever. And when there’s a loss, we fight amongst ourselves, you know, this is something that is frequently pointed out by those who are counting on us to do just that. So people should, if you don’t already, follow RiseUp4AbortionRights on social media, definitely send a message of support, and when you see shit call it out as shit. That’s my note.

Coco Das 33:06

This is a moment of reckoning. We all have to really ask ourselves: What kind of world do we want to live in? Whatever our best idea is of the world we want to live in, it is possible. I think most people have not given up, but it’s going to take work and it’s going to take people speaking out, not only against the fascists, but also in principled ways about things that are dragging people down that also has been spoken up against. It has to be called out and it has to be struggled with. We don’t have to be nasty about it, but too many people are silent about it; being silent, and giving us their messages of support behind the scenes. 

It is actually a time where you have to say to the people who are doing such tremendous damage right now, there has to be a voice of people that says to them, you’re wrong, you’re wrong about this and what you’re doing is really harmful. There is really a chance to keep up the momentum in the streets and really spread the fury of folks, and demand that the federal government restore legal abortion that is a just demand and we should fight for it and not accept anything less.

Sam Goldman 34:12

Folks can follow Coco on Twitter: @Coco_Das. Since this interview, Coco gave a great speech on July 2nd at a rally to restore legal abortion nationwide. The text of her speech is up on the website and I highly recommend you check it out, spread it and share your thoughts on it. It’s linked in the show notes as well. 

Here is an excerpt from Coco’s speech: 

”I have seen such fighting spirit in the streets with you this past week. This matters, but I can’t pretend the road ahead won’t be difficult we are in for the fight of our lives. The enemy seems so daunting, so powerful. The cliff is so high. This ruling goes against public opinion against the forward motion of history and the people. However noble our fight has been in the last few months, it did not win. And we don’t have to reach far into history to know what can happen when the road ahead feels too long, when the necessary sacrifices feel too great, we know that this makes people give up and retreat into their private lives hoping to avoid the worst of it, or at least avoid thinking about it. We know it makes people lower their sights. 

We know it makes leaders change their messaging to make losing seem like winning. We know how the people and movements and organizations can turn on each other instead of uniting to defeat a common enemy. We have seen all the ways movements and righteous struggles of the people get pulled off course. And even worse, we know how people can get sucked into doing the work of the very oppressor, and the very system that has its boots on all of our backs, leaving the people, especially the people who need us the most, out in the dust and alone. The truth is that every movement with a righteous demand has to deal with defeat. Every movement for justice has faced obstacles that seem insurmountable, and out of this terrible situation, we can wrench a different future, but not as we are now. 

We are too few. We are too easily set off course. We are too mired in a culture and ways of thinking that drag us down into the gutter. Instead of lifting our sights. As a people, we have to change. We have to find our fighting spirit. We have to have strong principles. We have to cast off old prejudices. We have to be better at debating ideas and dealing with disagreements. There’s a lot we have to learn. But we do all this through the struggle. And this struggle can transform not only the people who join, but all of society and all of the world. We change through the struggle. This country could not come through the Civil Rights Movement unchanged. It couldn’t come through the movement against the Vietnam War unchanged. It couldn’t come through the women’s and gay liberation movements unchanged. 

This upheaval this rupture that rocked us to our core is exactly what the fascist movement had to come back from over the last 50 years, and exactly what they fear happening again. They fear us rising up and they fear us becoming a new people as we do it. So let’s do it. We can stop them. We can win this right to legal abortion back for the millions of women, girls and other people who cannot be free without it. We can turn this around, not as the people we are now but as the people we become through this struggle.”

Visit RiseUp4AbortionRights.org to get involved in actions demanding legal abortion nationwide, now.

Sam Goldman 38:06

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