Sam talks to women in Iowa, where a new abortion ban was just signed into law, making essentially all abortion services unobtainable.
Lyz Lenz ia a journalist based in Iowa and author of several books including Belabored: A Vindication of the Rights of Pregnant Women. Find her on Twitter or her website.
Allison Simpson founded We Won’t Go Back – Dubuque Area and Bridgett Kearney is active with the group (which you can join if you are nearby, details on Facebook.)
*No new episode next week but we are hosting a discussion for Patrons with editors of RefuseFascism.org Coco Das, Paul Street and Sam Goldman on Sunday July 23 at 4pm ET. Details / sign up for $5/month to join at https://www.patreon.com/refusefascism
Refuse Fascism is more than a podcast! You can get involved at RefuseFascism.org. We’re still on Twitter (@RefuseFascism) and other social platforms including Threads and Mastodon.
Send your comments to [email protected] or @SamBGoldman. Record a voice message for the show here. Connect with the movement at RefuseFascism.org and support:
· paypal.me/refusefascism
· donate.refusefascism.org
· patreon.com/refusefascism
Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown
Voices from Abortion Rights Frontlines in Iowa
Refuse Fascism Episode 164
Sun, Jul 16, 2023 8:10PM • 58:38
Liz Lenz 00:00
Passing these laws, it’s not about re-election, it’s not about appeasing a base. This is a religious crusade. This is a humanity issue; women are dying. Women with wanted pregnancies are going septic because they can’t get miscarriage care, which is also abortion care, and in states where there are abortion bans, women are three times more likely to die in childbirth. We should be upset about this! We’re fighting for our lives out here!
Sam Goldman 00:50
Welcome to Episode 164 of the Refuse Fascism podcast, a podcast brought to you by volunteers with Refuse Fascism. I’m Sam Goldman, one of those volunteers and host of this show. Refuse Ffonascism exposes, analyzes and stands against the very real danger and threat of fascism coming to power in the United States.
In today’s episode, we’re covering the abortion ban in Iowa. Speaking to Iowa based author and journalist Lyz Lenz, along with abortion rights advocates. Thanks to everyone who goes the extra step and rates and reviews the show on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. If you appreciate the show and want to help us reach more people who want to refuse fascism, be a gem, go write a review and drop five stars wherever you listen to your pods.
I want to share Mojoman49’s review over on Apple Podcasts, gave us five stars, titling their review as “The strongest anti fascist voice in podcasts” writing: There is no other podcast that so directly fights the evil rise of fascism in America today than this one. The guest speakers are among the best in the realm of journalism, academia, and social media. The topics are current and the analysis powerful, insightful and useful to any American who values the democracy and society we cherish.” Thanks, Mojoman49! Be like them and tell the people out there in podcast land why you listen and they should too! Subscribe/follow so you never miss an episode. And of course, keep up all that great commenting, sharing on social media and the YouTubes.
Thank you to everyone on Patreon for supporting the show for $2 or more a month. Thanks patrons! Not one yet? Become one at Patreon.com/RefuseFascism. Need an extra reason to support? Next Sunday July 23, 4pm Eastern Time, Coco Das, Paul Street and I will be holding a patron only Q&A Zoom. So sign up to give $5 a month or more, and you’ll get an invite.
Before we get into these interviews, a few things. This week I watched a new documentary called Eldorado and I cannot recommend it highly enough. The name comes from the most popular queer nightclub in Berlin in the days of the Weimar Republic. The movie explores the harrowing and complex relationship between the limited, but very real revolution in gender and sexual relations of that period and the terror and death that followed immediately behind it as the Nazis rose to power and made traditional patriarchal gender roles into one of the cornerstones of their fascist regime.
So much eye opening history and so many lessons for today hitting way too close to home. It was striking watching as those who recognized the threat were isolated, and often fled, as all too many refused to believe it could really get that bad until it was too late. As the Social Democrats of their day tried and failed to use homophobia and scandal to shame the Nazis instead of leading masses of people to politically confront what kind of possible futures were shaping up — and so much more. A stark rejoinder to those who claim that accommodation is some kind of resistance; that we can somehow get around abortion bans or laws against gender affirming care. No, it is time to fight for the future. Again, that’s Eldorado, it’s on Netflix — I mean, fuck Netflix, but go watch it.
In today’s episode, we’re doing a deep dive into the near total Iowa abortion ban that was signed into law on Friday. Another heinous repercussion of the fall of Roe. As Jessica Mason Pieklo of Rewire News put it: “It was the result of a one day special session called by Republican Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds, whose only goal in passing the ban was to defy the will of the people and the ruling of the Iowa Supreme Court.” You’ll hear in today’s show about sexual assault, rape, ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages, and I want to thank Bridget, Liz and Alison for being so brave and sharing their stories with us.
I also want to emphasize that getting an abortion just because you do not want to be pregnant, do not want to give birth or be a mom, be a parent is fucking precious, and just as essential to defend! Forced motherhood is female enslavement! Legal, accessible abortion is the most fundamental right for women to be considered full human beings, and reversing this right — as we’ve said a lot on this show — is a battering ram for fascism.
The loss of Roe has sharply tightened thousands of years of patriarchal chains and it is a central concentration of the way this whole society is being ripped apart, with the Republi-fascists moving to install a fascist USA, and the Democrats desperately working to restore the “norms” of what I feel is an oppressive system. In Iowa they have banned nearly all abortion and left doctors with no information regarding criminal, civil or licensing liabilities until the Iowa Board of Medicine determines these rules — which won’t happen for possibly months. Abortion providers, ER doctors will have no idea what they are risking when they have to determine whether a pregnancy is putting a person’s life at risk or how doctors are to confirm that criteria is met.
As Jessica Valenti, put it in her invaluable Substack: “With no guidance on these so called exceptions and no idea about what legal and professional risks they’re taking, doctors will be left completely in the dark.” She goes on to say: “They want to sow confusion and chaos and to make what the law means so unclear that no one would say or risk to provide or obtain an abortion.”
While, yes, an injunction may and hopefully does come through this week, the voices you’re going to hear in this show and the exposure of this ban is a really important case study on the fascism afoot, directly inspired by the theocrats on the Supreme Court. It reminds all of us why the institutions won’t save us, voting alone won’t save us. Only all of us acting outside the killing — yes, literally killing — confines of politics as usual, will do.
In related news: They told us we were hyperbolic when we sounded the alarm regarding the plans to hunt down and punish women nationwide who seek abortions. Well, you know what? In what can only be described as akin to the Fugitive Slave Act, 19 State GOP Attorneys General want access to the medical records of women who get out of state abortions or people who get a gender affirming care in other states to enforce their state’s laws.
And finally, Tommy — “White nationalists are real Americans” — Tuberville has once more proven that in the Senate, where there is a fascist will there is a procedural way. Even as the Democrats have been unable to legislate abortion rights when they have solid majorities, as a lone senator in the minority party, Tuberville has forced the issue of the military’s limited abortion provisions onto the table. At issue is a policy that enables pregnant service members to receive abortion care even when they are stationed in states that restrict or ban that care.
Because these fascists will not be satisfied even when abortion is criminalized nationwide without exception, the senator is unilaterally blocking military appointments, including those of senior staff, until the policy is rescinded. Biden has said that he will not cede to these tactics, but these tactics have already helped empower fascists in the House to pass a new military budget that requires the ending of that policy as well as others that enable people in the military to receive gender affirming care and underwrite “diversity” programs.
Despite the framing of “real Americans” versus a woke military or of a culture war Republicans versus the patriotic armed forces, this is a front in the fascist war on every one they deem subhuman. The military is a very useful arena for them for a number of reasons. If they win here, this sets precedence for more federal crackdowns on what they see as “degenerate behavior” and weakens the very few institutions that have been loyal to the forces of the bourgeois democratic empire.
Most importantly, they know that the Proud Boys, the Oathkeepers aren’t going to win the civil war they see brewing, the civil war they are gunning for, but winning significant sections of the military away from institutional loyalty to the U.S. Empire and over to loyalty to the MAGA fascist movement just might. Tommy Tuberville isn’t gonna do that by himself, but he knows and we got to recognize that this is what his tactics serve — and that goal is not his alone. Now, here I my interviews with Bridget, Liz and Alison on Iowa’s abortion ban.
Today, we’re going to hear from different Women of Iowa on their thoughts on this loss of abortion rights. I am really glad to share with you the voice of some of these women who have been resisting, speaking out and sounding the alarm on the danger posed by this ban. First, I want to welcome Bridget Kearney. Bridget is a lifelong Iowan. She’s someone who’s wanted a baby for years, and who has been impacted by these laws as someone who has had an ectopic pregnancy. Welcome, Bridget. Thanks for coming on.
Bridget Kearney 11:12
Hi.
Sam Goldman 11:12
Bridget, can you tell us a little bit about what is happening in Iowa, what this ban means to you, and why you are so concerned about its implications?
Bridget Kearney 11:28
To me this is women losing rights that all humans should have. We should all have the right to choose what we do with our bodies or what we feel is mentally right for us at the time. We shouldn’t be scared to do something that is normal in human nature, just because there might be a consequence that there is nothing we can do after. It’s scary to people like me.
You had mentioned, I’ve wanted a baby for years and I’ve prayed for baby for years, but now I pray I don’t get pregnant because it seems as though my life doesn’t matter as it should and that an unborn child’s life would matter more. Mentally it’s scary for me to see my friends or family are going through this because at some point they might need an abortion or a next door neighbor of mine might be scared to continue doing normal things that everybody does because she’s a woman and because she doesn’t have a choice anymore.
Sam Goldman 12:19
What will this ban mean for women like yourself who have a medical condition who wanted their child, but, for instance, have an ectopic pregnancy or have any other health related need?
Bridget Kearney 12:33
Yeah. I’ve tried for years for a baby and I’ve had four miscarriages. Two, technically had to be intervened with what medically is classified as abortion — the first one being D&C and even though that was about a year and a half ago, at this point, it was still frowned upon by the doctors. I was bleeding heavily, I was so sick physically, mentally, I didn’t want to be here anymore. It was one of the most awful experiences ever. I thought it was bad then, but just about a month ago, actually, I suffered from ectopic pregnancy. I didn’t know until I was nine weeks along that it was ectopic.
So, after going to the hospital and ultrasound showed it, the ER doctors wouldn’t help me so I followed up with some other doctors that specialize in OB/GYN care, and because they were saying it was against their practice to terminate a life that still had a chance — which wasn’t my own, they were talking about an unborn baby that couldn’t survive without me regardless — they wouldn’t help me. Ectopic is really scary because it does kill a lot of women; most of the time, a woman will end up very, very sick or can kill her. It’s scary in the sense that I got sent home several days in a row even though my hemoglobin was dropping, because this baby still had a heartbeat and they didn’t care that my life was in danger.
The saddest part is there was days that I thought about ending my own life because: Well, why won’t these doctors help me? I’m going to be 22 this month and why does this baby that wouldn’t live without me matter more than I do? It was just sad to think that I didn’t feel cared about, I didn’t feel I was important, and it’s just sad to think that although I wanted this baby more than anything, it wouldn’t live without me. It couldn’t survive had I did something to myself, but they didn’t care. They just knew that there was lines that they weren’t willing to cross and this was before the law even became effective.
So I am more than afraid to see how it is come this Friday and after that for anyone that’s like me or anyone that just decides that this isn’t the right choice for them financially or mentally they can’t handle it and they need to do something like I did, which would have been surgery. But they wouldn’t do that for me and I’m scared for any woman who decides that this is what they need and they can’t have that now.
Sam Goldman 14:45
Bridget, I want to say how glad I am that you were able to find someone that would care for you and treat you and care about your life. I am so angry for you as well. I am so furious. that even though abortion in Iowa was legal up to 20 weeks — just as it is today, on Thursday — that you were unable to get care immediately. That is unconscionable, that you were treated as an incubator [BK: Yup], instead of the full woman with a life of value and dreams and hopes. I’m so sorry that that was your experience and I share your fear for others who if we don’t change, things will experience the same.
Bridget Kearney 15:31
Thank you. I agree.
Sam Goldman 15:33
I wanted to take a moment to talk about, given all you’re saying, there’s so much talk about the life of the baby, that that is all this is about — it’s about the life of the baby — when it’s never been about babies. It has always been about control over women. [BK: Yeah, it’s awful.] If it was about the babies, they’d be caring for the babies that are living, right. If it was about the babies — which it’s not because the fetus isn’t a baby — then they’d be caring about all these exceptions that aren’t really exceptions. That’s not what it’s about, and I was wondering if you had any thoughts on what this right means to women in relation to freedom and women’s full humanity.
Bridget Kearney 16:20
In my opinion, even as me as someone who wanted a baby, at this point, I don’t because like you had mentioned, I feel like an incubator. I feel like my rights don’t matter. It doesn’t matter how I feel as a human right now, it doesn’t matter that I felt way less than a person ever should, simply because I wasn’t cared about or respected because my opinion apparently didn’t matter and doesn’t matter anymore.
This is my life that I’ve been getting to live for 21 years, and the fact that it’s been this long, and now I am having parts of me taken away that shouldn’t get taken away — I should never have to be fearful of something so small, something miniscule, or that really doesn’t affect anyone else — this is my life, my body my choice — and I don’t understand why people are pushing so hard to make sure that I can’t make the decision for myself, as if I’m not a full grown woman that can do anything else in the world besides apparently choose if I’m ready for a baby or not. It is about control. I don’t think it has anything to do with them caring about a baby that would be born 10 months later. It’s more so just letting women know that they don’t have a choice anymore. It makes us feel small, and it’s not okay.
Sam Goldman 17:27
Thank you for that. Bridget, and thank you for being so open with us and sharing your experience. I wanted to close out by asking you: What do you wish that people would do in this moment? You’ve been part of protests, as this was becoming a likely reality that this ban would go forward. I’m just wondering, you know, what do you hope that you see right now from people?
Bridget Kearney 17:53
Right now, I would love to see more peaceful protests, because although it seems like it’s something small, the bigger they are or the more there are — even if it’s not just Iowa, if it’s one of our little next door neighbors like Wisconsin, if they were to stand with us, or even just all of us women in Iowa standing together and going downtown somewhere to just let people know that we have a voice that we deserve to be heard, and that we’re going to stand together because we deserve everything else that any other person in the world does, I think it would make a difference.
Sam Goldman 18:24
I think it’s really a time to unite and to act together to win back the fundamental right to legal safe abortion in, not just Iowa, but in the sixteen plus states in which it’s severely restricted or outright banned. I agree with you that the place to be as in the streets, I don’t see us winning without really massive, relentless, nonviolent struggle. It’s how we won the right in the first place, and it’s gonna be harder to win it back. It is only going to be through really making all of society come to a halt and saying this is the line.
Unless we’re free, no one’s free. I think it’s time for a wake up call. There was this chant when ban went through — I’m sure you saw it, it was viral — of people saying: Vote them out! Vote them out! It kind of made me sick, because I feel like we’ve gotta get real: This losing tactic of relying on increasingly rigged elections has at best slowed the impact for some women in some places, while leaving literally millions of women behind in all these states, [BK: Yeah] where it is currently banned.
I just think it’s past time that we look to our sisters in Latin America, who, in this beautiful green wave, where abortion has been in so many countries in Latin America, it’s been criminalized — generations of women dying from clandestine abortions or being arrested from the hospital for miscarriages — women rose up in the streets held up the green bandana and fought as one — nonviolently, just to be clear. Or taking inspiration from the women in Iran rising up against patriarchal degradation at great risk. I feel like it’s time to put something on the line because right now, the lives of women in Iowa, and millions of other women and other states are really in the crosshairs.
Bridget Kearney 20:25
Yes, I definitely agree with everything you just said. It matters. We all need to come together to make this difference just like we once have. But this time we need to do it — we need to be stronger. We can’t back down. It’s going to be a fight. Like you said, it’ll be worth it. If we can manage to come together and unite like we should.
Sam Goldman 20:43
I want to thank you so much, Bridget, for taking the time to share your experience and perspective. We’re just sending you and everyone in Iowa that cares about abortion rights, a lot of love.
Bridget Kearney 20:55
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Sam Goldman 20:57
Today, Friday, flanked by GOP presidential hopefuls at a woman hating Christian fascist forum, Iowa Governor Kim Reynolds is set to sign into law, a near total abortion ban. This is unless there’s an injunction by the court, which would happen like an hour before this all goes down. Iowa will join — if that doesn’t happen — the 19 states that have banned or severely restricted the right to abortion access in their states since the fall of Roe last summer, hijacking women’s bodies crushing dreams, destroying lives, and yes, quite clearly killing women.
Liz Lenz is an author and journalist. Her latest book is: ‘Belabored: A Vindication of the Rights of Pregnant Women’. She has a brilliant substack, Men Yell at Me, and, like all women in this week’s show, lives in Iowa. Welcome, Liz, thanks so much for coming on.
Liz Lenz 21:53
Thanks for having me.
Sam Goldman 21:55
Let’s start with: What do people nationwide need to understand about this ban and its impacts?
Liz Lenz 22:04
There’s a lot, I think, and every state, of course, is unique and different, but I always think that when these bans are passed, that there is this inclination among observers to say: Well, you get what you voted for, you get what you deserve. You see it on Twitter, I hear people say it all the time. I think there’s a couple things people need to understand about Iowa and a lot of similar states. First of all, abortion is favored, like 61% of Iowans believe abortion should be legal in all or most cases. This is not what Iowans voted for.
Yes, I mean, is Iowa a red state? Absolutely. But another thing you have to understand about Iowa is that it’s a small state, we’re smaller than New Zealand, we don’t have big city centers, and the media has been decimated. There are no big major media outlets, so getting messages out is really hard. People tend to listen to talk radio, which is very, very conservative. There’s a lot of rural spaces, we’ve got brain drain. All of these things are happening and kind of coalesce around this now almost near total abortion ban. And it’s also happening right after a legislative session where Republican lawmakers cut back SNAP benefits for food, kicking off over 10 million families off of food aid, where they’ve decimated public school funding in order to do a voucher program.
This is all coming on the heels of a pandemic where people literally were forced to work making chicken nuggets and die during a pandemic. There are lawsuits against the Tyson food plants because people were forced to work and die. It’s atrocity upon atrocity upon atrocity, and now it’s going to continue to get worse. We already have had Planned Parenthoods closed across the state because of funding cuts. You know, STD rates are super high, and reproductive care is not accessible. Maternity wards across the state are closing. So this is a real crisis for women and families.
This is a humanity issue. Women are dying. The maternal mortality rates in America are high, and they’re not getting better. They’re getting worse, and in states where there are abortion bans, women are three times more likely to die in childbirth. And now doctors are leaving the state. This is a huge crisis for people in Iowa and I just don’t think that we have fully grasped the crisis of humanity that is happening after pandemic, after food aid cuts, and now cutting access to reproductive care. And we haven’t even talked about queer kids in this state being targeted. So it’s really a crisis.
Sam Goldman 25:06
A lot of people will look at these numbers 12 week ban 15 week ban 6 week ban, and they’ll say: Oh, it’s not an abortion ban. One of the things that, rightly, a lot of people who are in the abortion world, whether they’re providers themselves, or advocates, have talked about the reality that six weeks, that’s like you have two weeks, if you know at four weeks, if you know that you missed your first period, depending on your weight and a bunch of other factors, then you have two weeks to get an abortion. It’s really a full out abortion ban. And then in the case of Iowa, there’s been a lot of talk about the exemptions. I just wanted to give you an opportunity to call bullshit on that.
Liz Lenz 25:46
Let’s call bullshit. First of all, I’ve had three pregnancies, so one miscarriage and two children — children who were made possible because I got emergency contraception after sexual assault in college. So I wouldn’t even have the children that I have today if I hadn’t been able to get myself to a Planned Parenthood the morning after one of the worst nights of my life — that needs to be said. I’ve never known I was pregnant before six weeks because I have irregular periods like so many women. I’d have literally never known. All three times I found out at eight weeks or 10 weeks.
Most people with uteruses do not find out that they are pregnant by six weeks. That’s just absolutely impossible. Also, a little side note, if you look at the legislation in Iowa, they’re actually like require which kind of ultrasound the doctors have to use, and it’s this weird kind of ultrasound, which I think keeps getting missed, because it’s such like a side bizarre thing. One of the legislators who is a Democrat called this out on the House floor. There’s this idea of, like: Oh, there’s these exceptions, and it’s fine.
First of all, as we’ve seen in states like Ohio, and states like Texas, where these “exceptions” exist, women with wanted pregnancies are going septic because they can’t get miscarriage care, which is also abortion care, because they don’t meet these weird little exceptions because they’re worded so awfully, and women are literally suing the government in Texas because they went septic and got infections and now can no longer have children. So, the goal is to like protect women and babies — you’re actually literally killing women and babies with wanted pregnancies. You know, there’s also these exceptions for like rape and incest, but that has to be reported. The law says you have to report that within so many days of the pregnancy.
As we know, rapes are not reported. How can you expect that to happen when it’s not actually happening? And when you have systematically closed down all access to maternity wards, reproductive care across the state. I need to get a hysterectomy, I’ve been on a waitlist for a gynecologist for months. And it’s incredible — because I was not a special snowflake here — that they can look at all the states, that they can see women in crisis, women dying and say: Yeah, we want that too. Women and girls — you know, people with uteruses.
Sam Goldman 28:28
Yeah, there is this thing where, like, they were justifying, yes, a child — a child — forcing a child to give birth. As a childhood rape survivor, I can’t!
Liz Lenz 28:40
When there was the gubernatorial debate, the Democratic candidate Deidre DeJear was talking about being an educator and meeting a young girl, a third grader, who was pregnant. The girl didn’t even have the language to know what was happening to her or what had happened to her — didn’t know how to talk about it, just knew that her clothes weren’t fitting. And during that debate, the governor said to Deidre DeJear, like: Oh, well, that girl would have had to have a late term abortion, that’s not what I stand for it.
So, they literally are talking about forcing third graders to have children. I had some friends over last night and we were all talking about our assault stories. One of my friends was talking about hers when she was in third grade and I just, I look at her in her life now and that I’m so grateful that she had a mother who had stood by her and, like helped her and did all the right things, but not everybody has that. I got assaulted when I was 21, and I did not even talk about it until I was 35 because I was so scared and so ashamed.
And again, yes, so many women have been victims of assault but also women with wanted pregnancies and that is the thing that I think it needs to be said over and over. You can be a person who’s like, I don’t like abortion, abortion should be illegal, you’re still gonna die. Do you know that when you had a miscarriage and you went to go get a DNC, that’s abortion care! You got an abortion and you just called it something else, and now you are gonna die. We should be upset about this.
We’re fighting for our lives out here. I had tweeted something about how I am going to get a hysterectomy because of all of this. Because I’m 40 years old. I have two children. I don’t want to be carrying a high risk pregnancy.
Sam Goldman 30:35
You know, I have friends, they’re in states where abortion is legal, access is regular as status quo, which we know is limited. But they’ve asked: Well, how is this happening? Didn’t a judge stop their ban? Can you help us out here?
Liz Lenz 30:52
Iowa Republicans have been trying to pass a complete abortion ban for years. In 2018, they passed a similar law and it was struck down by the courts because Roe was still the legal precedent. When Roe was overturned with the Dobbs ruling, instead of passing a new law, the Iowa Republicans — and this is a straight party line vote here — decided to ask the court to reconsider their ruling striking down the abortion ban. It’s a little weird because they have the majority they could have just shoved an abortion ban through.
They had made a lot of talk about doing a constitutional amendment. That had been the talk for years and then after Kansas rejected their own constitutional amendment, which would have made banning abortion part of the state constitution, and after Kansas rejected that, all talk in Iowa about that suddenly ceased — no explanations given, but I think we can guess why. So they asked the court to reconsider this law. That was really kind of a weird thing, and the justices who are not super progressive, because — another little contextual thing that people should know about Iowa is Iowa is the third state in the nation to legalize gay marriage.
We were actually one of the first states to integrate schools and to make interracial marriage legal, and the third state in the nation and the first non coastal state to legalize gay marriage. After that conservatives led a backlash movement to vote out a bunch of justices, and they were all replaced with a lot of conservative justices. So these conservative justices recently ruled — this is so weird — just passed a new law. They basically were just like, you can’t ask us to do this, there’s no legal precedent here.
But there was one justice who’s a pretty conservative guy, and I want to read you what he wrote, in an opinion. He said: “It would be ironic and troubling to be the first state Supreme Court in the nation to hold that trash set out in a garbage can for a collection is entitled to more constitutional protection than a woman’s interest in autonomy and dominion over her own body.” So then the governor announced a special session to ram this through.
I think it’s also important for people to know the Republican suspending normal rules — normal legislative rules — to limit debate to limit public hearing to limit public access, just in order to ram through this really unpopular law.
Sam Goldman 33:33
Was there anything that stood out to you when you were watching this all unfold? [LL: Yeah] This special session that you want to draw attention to.
Liz Lenz 33:42
I grew up in a family that was anti-abortion. I’m one of eight children. I was homeschooled; religiously homeschooled. We were the Duggars before Duggars was cool. Not that being a Duggar I was ever cool. But I do understand that this is a real religious crusade for people; that passing these laws is like a god thing. It’s not about reelection, it’s not about appeasing a base. This is a religious crusade.
But something that struck me over and over when I listened to anti abortion people talk about this bill was about how they were given a choice — while I was pregnant, or my mother was pregnant, and she chose not to abort and I’m here today. But you had that choice, and you’re now making a law that takes that choice away. People are always like: Oh, if you don’t want it, don’t choose it. But that ignores the fact that if you have a miscarriage, it’s not about not wanting it or not choosing it, it’s about getting the care you need so you don’t die from an infection.
Also, what struck me too, was the number of legislators who read Bible verses on the House and Senate floor. They would just stand there and read. There are religious traditions that support abortion. And you know, there’s no room for that kind of belief. I think we only have one Jewish member of the Iowa Senate who was like: Hey, my religion, older than yours, by the way, and supports abortion, so you’re limiting my religious freedom. But yeah, having people read scripture on the floor just really [SG: Ominous as fuck.] scary, scary and bad. That’s some basic Church and State bullshit.
Sam Goldman 35:22
What you’ve pointed to in terms of the theocratic heart of this movement is something that people constantly belittle the power of, and don’t take seriously. I feel like we have paid a horrible, horrible price for not taking them at their word when they said that they were going to do this for decades, when their endgame is clear, when they are telling us in neon, flashing neon, that they are going for nothing less than a nationwide ban on abortion, and the criminalization of pregnant folks.
Liz Lenz 36:01
I’m a political journalist in this state. Unlike a lot of journalists, I have the ability to be outspoken on this issue. I believe abortion is a human rights issue. I speak out about it, and I have the privilege of now being able to, but I remember working on newspaper — I wrote a whole book on reproductive rights — and I remember saying to a colleague, they are going to ban abortion one way or another.
This senior male reporter who had been working in Iowa politics know much longer than I had, little lady, and he was like: No, it’s just like a thing that they say to rile up the base. Don’t be hysterical. Don’t overreact. They’re not gonna do that, it’s deeply unpopular. And I was like: You don’t understand. They don’t care if it’s unpopular. They don’t care if they get voted out after this. Because to them, this is a religious crusade; they are protecting the babies against evil women like me, who would throw on a halter top and go have 20 abortions, the whores!
That is not an exaggeration. And I was like: No, this is going to happen. And I thought of him the other day. He’s retired now, and I hope he’s having a miserable time. This happens over and over again. I mean, it happened during the Trump years, where I remember when Trump was elected and talking to my father. My dad’s like: Oh, no, he just says those things. He’s not going to actually do them. I was like: Why is it so hard to take people at their word? I mean, I profile a lot of people at my job and so often people will be like: Oh, they’re just saying. They’re just putting on an act. I’m like: No, Ann Coulter is not faking it. Tucker Carlson’s not faking it. This is what people believe, and they will burn the earth down and take you with it, and they don’t care. So take people at face value and listen to the women who have been warning you of this for years.
Sam Goldman 37:50
Yeah, listen to us shrill bitches, you know. [LL: Yes] That is the takeaway for this episode. [both chuckle] Maybe my entire existence? [LL: Yes] One thing that strikes me in what you were saying is they don’t care about electability. Part of their game is changing the law, rewriting the law as a bludgeon, and restricting so that your vote doesn’t even fucking matter. Case in point is in Ohio, which I should do a whole episode on, where abortion rights advocates are trying to pass a ballot measure. And what does the GOP do? Constantly rewrites the rules so that the measure can’t go there. We are facing, really, an assault on just the most fundamental democratic rights. And I think that that needs to be part of the story.
Liz Lenz 38:42
There’s this sensibility problem. There’s a respectability problem among Democrats, where there’s this assumption that we’re all respectable people, we can all just figure. And that is not what we’re dealing with. You know, that is — and I see this in my state all the time — it’s like you’re not dealing with people who want to meet you in the middle, you’re dealing with people who will scorch Earth, who will burn this place to the ground, and not care, because they think they’re doing what Jesus told them to do.
So stop. Just go, then go hard. It’s not like, you know, they go low, we go high. If they go hard, we go harder. Just stop it and fight. I think there’s this real like: As long as we’re reasonable, it’ll be fine. And I get that, but people are dying and we need to fight tooth and nail with every little tool in our toolkit to save people’s lives, because that’s what’s at stake. You can’t just be like: Oh, well, they’ll learn after they lose a few elections. No, there’s redistricting happening.
In Iowa, it’s a little different. There’s not quite redrawing the maps because they don’t have to because it’s mostly rural, so they could just shut down all the newspapers and it’ll be fine. Like you said, they’ll change the rules in order to ram through unpopular legislations. I don’t know, filibuster. Be the Megan Hunt-s you want to see in the world. Gum up the works because the works are not serving democracy anymore.
Sam Goldman 40:13
Why don’t you close out with — kind of what all the decent folk who are listening — what is needed now. You wrote something recently that just really resonated with me and the seething anger that I feel every single day, and that I know that I’m not alone in feeling. You wrote: “These are our lives on the line. We should be hysterical; we should become unruly, unmanageable, we should fill the halls with rage in the streets with screams. We should become unhinged, unfettered, and overwrought. We need to be hysterical. Our lives are worth it.”
I just first want to thank you for seeing our collective fury and our humanity, and shining a light on that, because I think that it’s not enough part of the narrative. But it is a big part of reality. I did just want to give you an opportunity to talk a little bit about all of us who are swallowing our outrage — what’s needed right now?
Liz Lenz 41:11
Right now, there is a lawsuit trying to stop this bill. I think when we talk about the bad things happening, it’s also important to talk about the good people on the ground, who are doing the work. Emma Goldman clinic, which is one of the oldest independent abortion clinics in America is in Iowa City. They are part of this lawsuit. Iowa Abortion Access Fund — and I named them specifically because if you are seething with rage, and you want to support Iowans, those are two places who could use your donations. Iowa Abortion Access Fund and the Emma Goldman Clinics.
There are people trying to stop it through lawsuits, through these mechanisms. And I think that meta-wise, I think it’s okay to lose your mind a little bit. I think it’s okay to be mad. I think that’s good. We should be mad. We should get angry when we see inhumanity done to other people. And these are part of bigger things — like, the Writers Guild is on strike, you may think that has nothing to do with it, but it has everything to do with refusing to give people equal access, equal pay — it’s all a part of these movements.
So women aren’t given equal access to health care. I think there is a collective problem happening in our society, where the bottom half is being squished by the top half. I think it’s okay to say that, and I think it’s okay to be mad about it. And I think it’s — find what you’re good at and dig in and do it. You do not have to do everything. You can’t do everything, but you can do the thing that you are good at. I can write and I can yell, and so I do that.
If you are good at being an abortion escort, do that. If you live in Ohio and all you can do is donate to Iowa abortion access fund or your local place, that helps people. We are told that our little things don’t mean anything, but they mean everything in the flat face of fascism, so just keep your humanity.
Sam Goldman 43:07
Definitely keep your humanity. I think that the normalizing of this violent assault on women that is happening at such a scale — it is sickening, the silence and the secret, and how quiet the streets are, and how much we’ve adjusted to the absolute intolerable. This is something that I’m working to change, but I deeply, deeply hope that that changes fast, because so many lives are imperiled. I just want to give you an opportunity if people want to read more from you, hear more from you, where do we go? What do we do?
Liz Lenz
I have a website, LizLens.com, where I link to the newsletter, I link to my books and other writing. I also have a substack if you look for Men Yell at Me, just Google that, you should find my little Substack. We have a good time over there. We talk about important stuff, but then we also make jokes and we do the best that we can with the world that we have and join together and have community and find compassion and dig in and fight.
Sam Goldman 44:15
That’s wonderful. I just want to thank you again so much for sharing your time, your expertise, your perspective with us.
Liz Lenz 44:23
Thank you so much for having me on.
Sam Goldman 44:25
So I am really glad to now introduce and welcome onto the show Allison Simpson. She is an abortion rights activist, a native Iowan, and a mom of a toddler. She was at the really important protest that happened as this special session was going down and has been protesting prior to that special session. I am so glad to welcome you Allison, thanks for coming on.
Allison Simpson 44:56
Thanks so much for having me.
Sam Goldman 44:58
Her voice, you probably can hear, [AS: chuckles] is a little bit sore from screaming at the Capitol. [AS: I’m still getting it back.] We’re grateful that you’re lending your voice, even now. [AS: Thank you.] When did you get involved in fighting for abortion rights in Iowa?
Allison Simpson 45:15
I grew up in a really politically involved family. My aunt is actually a state senator, and my uncle was a State House rep before that, so I grew up being very involved in politics; it’s just always been a part of my family and who I am. So, I’ve always been active in politics. My activism and abortion rights happened when Dobbs happened. Three months prior to Dobbs, I had a miscarriage for a very much wanted baby, and seeing what was playing out in Iowa and what I knew was to come, it made me feel like I couldn’t sit back and not use my voice.
I was in a really unique position, because I had just sold my business, and so I wasn’t working. I know a lot of people were shocked when Dobbs fell. People know that I’m politically active, so they’re reaching out like: What happened? What can we do? So I decided to take my free time to start a group called We Won’t Go Back – Dubuque. The very next day, we had a thousand people in Dubuque at a protest, and I felt the spine and since, over the last year, I’ve tried to educate people on abortion rights, on candidates that were running for office, how to volunteer how to stay active.
Sam Goldman 46:36
Thanks for sharing all that with us. This special session, what was it like being there? Tell us about it.
Allison Simpson 46:43
We went in knowing that it wasn’t gonna go our way. But I felt a need to show up for a lot of people that couldn’t, and be a voice for the people that couldn’t be there, because they called special session in the middle of the week in the summer with very little warning. So, had a group of six people from Dubuque and we left at 4:30 in the morning and drove down. It was really empowering to be surrounded by so many people fighting for the rights of women in Iowa. I had the opportunity to sit in on the session and listen to some of the amendments being proposed.
It’s very frustrating not being able to be very involved, you know, and voice my opposition to some things. A few of the amendments that stuck out to me were hearing the argument of allowing more time for her children that are rapeed to get an exception. It just was a very cruel discussion happening. I actually snapped a photo of my own state senator who is a Republican taking a little snooze back by the windows. So that was really disheartening as well.
But for me, the worst part of the whole thing was, as I said, my aunt is a state senator — she had a daughter, my cousin who was born with severe disability. She was nonverbal and was in residential care for part of her life. And my aunt proposed an amendment for non verbal Iowans with disabilities to have an exception to this and it was struck down. So just seeing the cruelty was disheartening, but also disgusting and only strengthened my need to be more vocal.
Sam Goldman 48:34
Yeah, watching some of what was just said — sickening. That, I missed, and that’s unspeakable. There was also rep Brad Sherman saying…
Allison Simpson 48:47
…not to have sex. [SG: Yeah] And Shannon Lundgren, who proposed the bill is from Dubuque, she was complaining on Twitter about how vile we all were protesting.
Sam Goldman 49:01
Turning from the horror that happened inside, what kinds of people came out to protest? What were the signs or chants that you heard? What was the mood? Bring us there for that.
Allison Simpson 49:12
It was so many different types of people there. I met some college aged men who were there, grandmas who, you know, had been through this fight before. My voice is gone, because I was leading a lot of the chants — it’s one thing that I always look forward to is protesting. So a lot of the chants we were doing were: “Pro life is a lie, because you don’t care if people die.” “Not the church, not the state, only we decide our fate.” “Abortion is health care.”
Sam Goldman 49:44
I was so glad that there were people — and I know so many people felt that way too. So glad seeing that it wasn’t going down without people voicing the will of the people, which is the majority of Iowans. Even if it wasn’t the majority, it should be a right, to be clear, it’s not the majority that makes something right or wrong, but this is highly unpopular.
Regardless of what somebody’s reason is — every reason is a good reason — that it was really important that people were out there. It’s completely outrageous how she’s going to sign it today. I don’t even know how that’s legal, to do it in like a church event. I don’t understand how there has been any separation of church and state in this — reading bible quotes on the House floor. I don’t understand why there aren’t more people screaming, like, theocracy warning, like this is real. And it’s not in the distant future, it’s happening now.
Allison Simpson 50:41
And Bob Vander Plaats is from Iowa, The Family leader, and he has money and he’s able to do a lot of harmful things for Iowans, and unfortunately, I think Kim Reynolds is trying to be DeSantis’ VP pick, so it doesn’t matter what Iowans want; she’s using it as a way to get national attention to woo Ron DeSantis.
Sam Goldman 51:04
And how dangerous that is. [AS: Yeah] I’m wondering what’s next in this fight, I know that you’re not going to give up and bail on this. And I know that for so many people in the 19 states now [AS: Yup] that have either banned or severely restricted abortion rights since the fall of Roe, we need to act, people’s lives are at stake now. [AS: mmhmm] My blood just boils at a certain point when people are like: Well, you’ll vote them out, you’ll vote them out. I want to vomit, because people are dying now, and people are being affected now. How callous of you.
Some of these ballot measures and things like that have protected some women in some places for some time, while like literally turning a blind eye to the millions — over 22 million women and girls of reproductive age — that don’t have access right now. This is real, y’all. I just feel like if it wasn’t abortion, something that primarily affects women, like everything would be shut down. So I’m like, we need to fight.
Allison Simpson 52:10
I realize that speaking to these politicians isn’t going to change their mind. I’ve recently started a social media call out asking everyone to contact Hy Vee, which is a grocery store chain here, who was Kim’s top donor. Last year. We’ve made fake Hy Vee ads, calling her out, and we have spammed their comments. They’re blocking comments left and right. Yesterday, I think we had over 100 calls to their headquarters because I feel like she’s not gonna listen to us, but maybe she’ll listen to the money. So that’s why I’m being re doing.
Sam Goldman 52:49
I think it should be as relentless as they are in their quest to exert and normalize violence against women. I think that they are shredding norms, burning that rulebook of how things should go and changing the laws as weapons to bludgeon people’s rights. If there was ever a time to be disruptive, if there was ever a time to put something on the line, if there was ever a time to make life uncomfortable [AS: exactly] for those who are unleashing so much harm, now’s the time.
Allison Simpson 53:24
Yeah. I think after roe fell, there’s so many people that were upset, and then it kind of dissipated and came back a little bit after the election. But in my area, it was like pulling teeth trying to get people to volunteer and knock on doors. I’m hoping now that they see the consequences of not acting now, that more people will get involved in holding their representatives accountable.
Sam Goldman 53:48
It’s so important, the work that We Won’t Go Back is doing in mobilizing people to take action. The streets are way too quiet. Even online, it’s way too quiet around abortion rights. We need to get louder still and really demand nothing short of a restoration of a legal right to abortion nationwide. [AS: Yes, mmhmm] Because they’re going for… they’re not going to settle [AS: No] with 19/20 states. They’re trying for a nationwide ban. [AS: The whole thing.] The whole shebang with birth control next.
Allison Simpson 54:19
Yeah, I know. Over the counter birth control pill was just announced and that’s a really good step, but all I could think of is how long is i gonna last?
Sam Goldman 54:28
I know. When I saw it, it was: Okay, but how is this gonna work? Will it ever make it to shelves? It’s a wonderful thing, but yeah. [AS: chuckles] Well, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to share with us your experience and your perspective. If folks want to get involved and they happen to be in Iowa, what should they do?
Allison Simpson 54:50
They can follow We Won’t Go Back – Dubuque area. We also have a page called Vote for Roe, which was an event we had done this past summer. It takes 84 miles to get to our closest abortion clinic, so for a month, everyone walked 84 miles and raised money for each mile. But we’re obviously doing abortion education on that page as well — both on Facebook, unfortunately, despite my disdain for Facebook, it’s the best way to get work and write in large groups.
Sam Goldman 55:20
Well, thanks so much.
Allison Simpson 55:21
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this.
Sam Goldman 55:25
Of course, and good luck with your voice. [both laugh]
Allison Simpson 55:28
Thank you.
Sam Goldman 55:29
We couldn’t do this episode without shouting out Dr. Emily Boevers, and the other Iowa doctors who’ve been sounding the alarm on the harm this ban will cause. I want to underscore that what we are up against in this attack on abortion rights and the broader, entire Christian fascist assault on humanity, and yes, the planet itself, is not going to be some easy reconciliation.
We are up against a force that is not bound by the normal workings of this system — which speaking personally, we’re never emancipatory. We’re up against a fascist movement that disregards the rule of law, the will of the people, that turns the law into an instrument of further atrocity against the people, and mobilizes their mobs to terrorize. And if they don’t succeed in winning through legal channels or reworking maps, they have made it perfectly clear they will unleash violence.
But there is hope. If we realize that we, the decent folk who do not want to live in a Christian theocracy, we are the majority, we are a force. But we need to show it. Not by our vote being our voice, but by our voice, our body, our collective power in the streets, visibly, deafeningly, endlessly, disruptively.
Thanks for listening to Refuse Fascism. We want to hear from you. Share your thoughts, questions, ideas for topics or guests or lend a skill. Tweet me — I’m still there — @SamBGoldman, drop me a line at [email protected]. We’re also on threads and Mastodon so check the show notes for links. On threads, we’re just RefuseFascism. Or we’d love to hear your voice. Leave us a voicemail. See the show notes to get a link to do that.
Want to support the show? It’s simple. Show us some love by rating and reviewing on Apple Podcasts or your listening platform of choice. And of course, follow/subscribe so you never miss an episode. Become a patron to support our pod and content creation to help people understand and act to stop the fascist threat. Sign up for $5 a month or more and you’ll get an invite for our virtual q&a happening next Sunday, July 23, at 4pm. Eastern Time. Coco Das, Paul Street and I are going to be fielding your questions. Join us. Give today at patreon.com/refuse fascism or by visiting RefuseFascism.org and hitting the donate button.
Thanks to Richie Marini, Lina Thorne, and Mark Tinkleman for helping produce this episode. Thanks to incredible volunteers, we have transcripts available for each show, so be sure to visit RefuseFascism.org and sign up to get them in your inbox. We’ll be off next Sunday, but looking forward to seeing our patrons for a Zoom. But we’ll be back with a regular episode July 30th. Until then, in the name of humanity, we refuse to accept a fascist America!