Censored Classrooms & The Freedom to Read

Censored Classrooms & The Freedom to Read

Refuse Fascism Episode 178

Sun, Nov 12, 2023 4:06PM • 46:24

Kasey Meehan 00:00

We’ve seen more and more introduction of legislation at the state level that’s having an effect of removing books without even that challenge. It’s a well coordinated campaign, a well coordinated movement, to remove certain types of stories, histories, identities from our public schools. It’s a harm on students and it’s a real threat to… just young people and the freedoms that they feel to read, yes, but to also see themselves reflected in books and to see other people with different experiences than themselves reflected in books, and to learn and empathize and grow from. These attacks are really intended to dismantle and disrupt a public infrastructure that is educating students.

Sam Goldman 00:57

Welcome to Episode 178 of the Refuse Fascism podcast, a podcast brought to you by volunteers with Refuse Fascism. I’m Sam Goldman, one of those volunteers and host of the show. Refuse Fascism exposes analyzes, and stands against the very real danger and threat of fascism coming to power in the United States. Today, we’re sharing an interview with Kasey Meehan, the Program Director of the Freedom to Read initiative at PEN America.

Thanks to everyone who goes the extra step and rates and reviews the show on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. If you appreciate the show and want to help us reach more people who want to refuse fascism, be like a rock star and go write a review, drop five stars wherever you listen to your pods. Tell podcast land, why you listen, and they should too. Subscribe/follow so you never miss an episode. And of course, keep up all that great commenting, sharing on social media and the YouTubes. Thanks to everyone on Patreon for supporting the show for $2 or more a month. Thanks patrons. Not one yet? Become one at Patreon.com/RefuseFascism.

Need an extra reason to support? Wednesday, November 29, at 8pm Eastern Time, Refuse Fascism Editorial Board members, Coco Das and Paul Street are gonna join me in holding a patron only ask us anything — within limits — Zoom chat. So sign up to give $5 a month or more and you’ll get an invite. Current patrons, there’s a post up with a signup link.

While we’re not focusing on the genocide in Gaza in this episode, we wanted to point listeners to some resources including: Episode 176 of this show; a piece by repeat guest, Jason Stanley — it’s an essay that he has in The Guardian, titled My life has been defined by genocide of Jewish people, I look on Gaza with concern; as well as the extensive coverage across platforms by the Institute for Middle East Understanding. Check the show notes for links to those.

I’m eager to share the interview with you, but first, there is just a lot to discuss regarding the advancing fascist threat in the U.S., so let’s get to it. If you’re a regular listener of the show, you know I love the right to abortions, and those who fight for abortions and those that provide abortions and those who fund abortions and the cool aunties who drive your ass to get the abortions, because the right to abortion is about whether women are free or not, full stop. It’s from there I want to say we are being played big fucking time when we’re told abortion rights are winning in relation to the ballot initiative win in Ohio and Youngkin’s Virginia loss [of the legislature].

Don’t get me wrong. In Ohio. There is no overstating the total b.s. from Republi-fascists that had to be overcome in order to even get the abortion rights measure on the ballot, let alone passed. Sunsara Taylor aptly described the reaction from folks celebrating these abortion wins as “dangerously misplaced triumphalism.” For those who don’t know, Sunsara is co host of the RNL [Revolution, Nothing Less] show, and she co-initiated Rise Up for Abortion Rights and has played a significant role on the Refuse Fascism Editorial Board. She tweeted: “Stop saying abortion is winning. The national right to abortion is gone. Abortion is now banned in 21 states.”

And it’s true. So I want to get into three things: Why a state by state strategy continues to be ultimately a losing strategy to win abortion rights. What specifically happened in Ohio and what that signals is still needed. Here we are, over a year after the overturn and it is the clear that it is a losing tactic to rely on increasingly rigged elections that have at best slowed the impact for some women in some places, while turning a blind eye to the millions of women, girls and others denied abortion care in their state right now. And let’s get real, the idea that we have to fight for women’s civil rights state by state only normalizes the concept that our fundamental rights should be based on local public opinion. Would you accept the rights of free speech in this state, but not that state? Or the rights of vote in only half the country? Or the right of worship, but not if you happen to live in the South?

Also, we’ve gotta be real, these wins, if challenged, go to courts that are packed with Christian fascists, and then end up at the Supreme Court of the United States — the very court that — hello! — said forced birth, hell yes, making it a legitimate legal option for the States last year to overturn abortion rights; female enslavement, stamped sealed and delivered by that court. These fascists are not stopping either. They’re going after mifepristone, an abortion pill; it’s on the line still. A nationwide abortion ban normalized and embraced by the GOP as people are coaxed into the idea that a 15 week abortion ban is somehow a compassionate compromise.

This country is at an unprecedented turning point. In her Twitter thread, Sunsara also wrote: “MAGA and the Christian fascists have captured the Supreme Court, the Speaker of the House, many state governments and more. They have declared in advance that any election they lose is illegitimate. The norms are not holding, and were not any good in the first place.” Now let’s take a look at Ohio, specifically. Ohio, said yes to abortion rights, and Ohio GOP promptly replied: Nah, we ‘gon do the fascism. Ohio Republicans won’t accept the results of November seventh’s vote, and are seeking to strip the courts of their power to interpret the abortion rights amendment — doing so to overturn the will of Ohio voters and continue to enforce abortion bans.

More than a third of the Republican caucus in Ohio’s House of Representatives issued a joint statement basically pledging to keep up their fight to restrict abortion access. Remember, to these delusional fascists, anything they lose is — you got it — illegitimate. The fascists are going to fascist precisely as they keep promising to. Time for outrage, abso-fuckin-lutely. Surprised? No. We’re being told to plead for Democrats to run “on abortion rights,” but all evidence points to the obvious fact that they can win on abortion rights, but even if they win because of this, we don’t actually win abortion rights.

It’s still not codified and for decades when Dems had the opportunity to codify the right to abortion, before the loss of Roe, they didn’t. The Dems have refused to fight for this for decades, and lead good people down this deadly path. Remember that the loss of Roe was with Democrats in the White House and Senate and House majorities. Don’t let them control or corral your energies into the killing confines of this system. Our fury belongs in, and our power lies in, the streets, un-ignorably and relentlessly demanding legal abortion on demand and without apology nationwide. Trump spoke and posted a statement on Veterans Day. Yes, he called his foes “vermin” both places. He derisively called them communists and Marxists.

As dangerous as this is, we’ve heard much of this before. It’s good to point out that an excessive focus on just these key words ultimately reinforces the seemingly instant and endless political amnesia in this country. His most extraordinary callback to the key tenets of fascism was not rhetorical, it was conceptual. He said: “The threat from outside forces is far less sinister, dangerous and grave than the threat from within.” He went on to weave an airtight circular reasoning for using every tool at his disposal as once and future president to take out any obstacle in his path.

Last month, he accused immigrants of poisoning the blood of this country. He famously accused all Mexican immigrants of being rapists and murderers with some exceptions. He attempted to ban all Muslims and follow through to the best of his ability at the time. He threatened nuclear war multiple times as U.S. President. None of those targets could touch him, but the rickety rails of bourgeois democracy attempting to stabilize its empire sidelined him. Through the lens of Hitler’s fascist antisemitic conspiracism, this all makes perfect sense.

Those “outside forces” are simply pawns to the greatest threat, internal dissent and opposition. And he is preemptively claiming the authority to weaponize the Justice Department and vastly expand the death penalty to deal with it. If you missed it, I have to play for you this clip from a Univision interview with Trump that just illustrates the level of revanchism Trump is promising, and that if the MAGA fascists returned to power, they’re going to make sure their opposition never holds power again.

Donald Trump 10:29

They’ve weaponized the Justice Department. They’ve weaponized the FBI. And they’ve come at me with the worst indictments. If they want to follow through on this, uhh, yeah, it could certainly happen in reverse. It could certainly happen in reverse. What they’ve done is they’ve released the genie out of the box. They have done something that allows the next party, I mean, if somebody if I happen to be president, and I see somebody who’s doing well and beating me very badly, I say: Go down and indict them. Mostly what that would be, you know, they would be out of business. They’d be out. They’d be out of the election. In my case, it was they were such pathetic indictments.

Sam Goldman 11:08

As journalist Aaron Rupar noted, “Trump returning to power would result in serious (and possibly violent) constitutional crises.” The Republi-fascists are fighting for a permanent win. One that eliminates, for good, all their enemies and all of the people who they think have destroyed “their country”. This is evident in the comprehensive schemes for fascist consolidation outlined in living color in Project 2025, which has barely been covered by the media. Despite the five alarm fire it represents – blatant dictatorship in which the unchallenged domination of these fascists would be enforced at every level, and by every means that their disposal.

Project 2025 details even deploying the military toward that end. His cronies are plotting to invoke the Insurrection Act, they won, he holds power. And this brings to mind a quote from Dorothy Thompson, one of the first American journalists to be expelled from Nazi Germany. Speaking about Hitler, she wrote: “One dismissed him, still clinging to the concept of normal, not wondering what might happen if such a man, surrounded by others with a capacity for organization, should come to the surface in a society which shared his own symptoms, a society which was also frustrated and sick.” The GOP is driving forward full steam ahead for the installation of fascism. And we are being told to walk down the tracks, to ignore the train whistle — it’s only the wind.

We’re gonna get more into project 2025 in future episodes, for sure, bring your questions to our patron only Q&A Zoom chat happening Tuesday, November 29. Let’s Get Real. The fascists are setting the terms swinging the Supreme Court like a sledgehammer, planning their vengeance and preparing civil war with Trump still the front runner. As we’ve said before, and will continue to say, this is a time for truth, not delusion, for struggle, not complacency.

On November 9, after I’d conducted my interview with Kasey, PEN America released their latest comprehensive report on educational gag orders titled: “America’s Censored Classrooms, 2023: Lawmakers shift strategies as resistance rises”. It documents “110 new educational gag orders introduced in 2023, which primarily take aim at restricting speech about LGBTQ plus topics and identities in K-12 schools, and squelching the structures that underpin academic freedom at higher education institutions. These laws and policies are turning schools and campuses into ideological battlegrounds, where basic rights are under assault, and long standing educational freedoms are being undermined.” A link to the report is in the show notes.

With that, here is my interview with Kasey. It’s been a minute since we discussed the assault on the freedom to read, a key pillar in what we on the show refer to as the the Christian fascist assault on public education. To provide an update on the situation, including ways that people can resist, I couldn’t be happier to bring to you, Kasey Meehan, Freedom to Read Program Director at PEN America, who leads their initiatives to protect the right of students to freely access literature in schools. Cool stuff, right? For those who don’t know, and I’m skeptical if you listen regularly to the pod that you don’t know, PEN America stands at the intersection of literature and human rights to protect open expression in the United States and worldwide. They champion the freedom to write, recognizing the power of the word to transform the world. Welcome, Kasey. Thanks for coming on.

Kasey Meehan 14:47

Thanks, Sam. Thank you for having me. First off, how do we understand the freedom to read. What is it? I loved how you said it, succinctly, in the intro. We think about the freedom to read as ensuring that students have public access to diverse and inclusive literature. And for us, the freedom to read and defense of the freedom to read is really playing out in our public schools in our public libraries, where we see threats to the freedom to read in the form of book bans and other forms of suppression playing out. But certainly, when we think of the Freedom to read, we define it, as your public school being a central place for knowledge building and information sharing, and that public school library or that public library being a home to this diverse and inclusive and representative, and vast stories and identities and cultures and everything; books, [chuckles] books, many, many books.

Sam Goldman 15:39

I think that’s really helpful to frame our conversation. At the start of this school year, so a couple of months back now, I had shared with listeners the report put out by PEN America, and it had what I thought was a really condensed but powerful summary of what was going on. I’m going to quote part of it here. PEN America wrote: “There is a nationwide effort to foment anger and anxiety about public education, to restrict or prohibit instruction about race, sexuality, and gender, and to ban books that address these topics. Taken as a whole, it is a multifaceted campaign to chill the freedom to read, learn and think in public education through legislation and intimidation.”

We talked about, previously, that we are witnessing blanket bans on books that advance to the level of really an assault on public education as a whole. And I was hoping that you could talk to us a little bit more about these book bans, as they’re currently taking shape. Where are they happening? Are there trends in what’s being banned? There was a skyrocket last year in the number of book bans. How are things looking for this school year?

Kasey Meehan 16:58

PEN America has been tracking for the last two school years. We’re currently tracking the current school year. So we looked at the 2021 to 2022 school year, the 2022 to 2023 school year, and now we’re in the middle of tracking the 2023 to 2024 school year. What we unfortunately continue to see is the way in which the scale and magnitude of book bans is growing. You read such a powerful line, and I agree that it just shows there’s a movement here. This isn’t haphazard, it’s not an individual parent seeing that their student is reading a book and they’re taking issue with a book. It’s a well coordinated campaign, a well coordinated movement to remove certain types of stories, histories, identities from our public schools, and we see the way in which it continues to grow and to scale across districts, across states.

So, when we first started tracking in 2021, that first school year, what we really saw was the outsize role that groups and activists were having at the very local level. So these were individuals or they were groups that were local to a school district that were challenging 10 books or 20 books, or five books every couple of months. That was really where we saw the movement kick off. In the last school year, and then continuing this school year, we’ve seen more and more introduction of legislation at the state level that’s having an effect of removing books without even that challenge.

In addition to the local activists in the local groups challenging books at the school level, or the district level, we also see the way in which state legislation is now just banning, prohibiting books from entire districts and entire states by really vague terminology in this legislation that’s prohibiting content or instruction on sexual orientation; prohibiting any sort of, “divisive concepts” from being taught in schools; prohibiting sexually explicit or obscene material from being available to students. What’s happening is like a true conflation of all these terms to really continue to remove stories with LGBTQ+ identities, stories with characters of color, stories that talk about multiple cultures and religions and ethnicities, and stories that have sex content in the books. Those are the books that we continue to see targeted and ultimately removed from access for students.

Sam Goldman 19:08

Are there places where it’s happening more than others?

Kasey Meehan 19:13

Yes, we track this in a few ways. There are some districts that are really kind of at the epicenter of book bans. There’s a few districts in Florida, in Texas, in Pennsylvania — in our respective backyards. There are districts that have removed hundreds of book titles, and they really are we’re censorship is surging, these like hotspots and book removals. Then, when we roll it up a next level to the state level, then, again, we see Florida leading the way.

Last school year 40% of all book bans were tracked in Florida; were recorded as coming out of Florida school districts. We certainly see a lot of activity around book bans in Florida, but also followed by Texas, Utah, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Iowa, and this year, following recent legislation, Tennessee, the Carolinas, Virginia. There are these moments where different legislation or different campaign, we’ll just see if they pop up in thirds in terms of book removal.

Sam Goldman 20:05

When it comes to the legislation that isn’t school board level decisions about books and what books students have access to you, correct me if I’m wrong, but what you’re saying is they’re not giving specific book titles, right? They’re not saying: Genderqueer is banned. They’re saying: Books that have like a sexual content, or whatever, are banned. And so it is very easy to then restrict access based on that if you’re somebody who wants to restrict what students have access to. Am I right?

Kasey Meehan 20:05

Yeah, I think it comes from two different places. We see legislation that does have these increasingly vague terms. So where it first started is legislation that’s prohibiting “pornographic” — I’m putting everything in quotes, like quote unquote, pornographic or “obscene” material is prohibited in schools. That’s common sense. That’s already a felony offense. No porn is in schools. That’s taken care of.

But we’re seeing more and more legislation — we’re seeing legislation today prohibit that. And what’s happening is that it’s being interpreted in ways that do not align to any legal or colloquial definition of those terms. There’s a large mislabeling in this characterization of books that are being removed when there is that type of legislation that prohibits that. But as people got a little savvier, the legislation also began to change up their language. Where now, we’re seeing prohibitions on sexually “relevant”, material — hard to define, not clear — what does this mean? Presumably, there’s a lot of subjective interpretation of what is actually relevant.

We’ve also seen, most recently, there’s legislation in Iowa that required that all material needs to be age appropriate, and anything that has sex is not age appropriate. So again, we see books that have people holding hands, your first kiss, your first date, like gentle young adult romance novels, as well as books that do talk about one’s first sexual experience or talk about sexual assault and sexual abuse. Those books that have any sort of sex content in them are also being now removed from school libraries under this mislabeling that these books are not “age appropriate.” Of course they are.

We see the way in which the language is being used in legislation is also getting more and more vague, coupled with the fact that many of these pieces of legislation will have real threat to educators, to librarians. So there is a threat of criminalization and many pieces of legislation, where if you are deemed giving inappropriate material to a student, you can be criminalized a felony or misdemeanor offense. You could be fined up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. There’s also legislation that threatens decertification; that your certification can be revoked.

There are some actors who are removing books, because this is an opportunistic window to remove books that include content or characters or identities that make people feel some sort of way, as well as districts that are acting out of just extreme caution, because they are concerned that their librarians or their educators are gonna be accused of giving, “harmful material” to students, and thus end up in really challenging and tricky situations. I think it’s a little bit of this dance that districts are constantly navigating, and the trade offs that are in that — do we protect librarians, but at the cost of access to books for students? or do we make sure that students have broad, diverse, inclusive lit at potential risk to our educators and our librarians and our district leaders? So we do see that dance happening in many places across the country.

Sam Goldman

Coupled with self censorship, I think, amongst [KM: Oh, sure.] educators. Now, that said, it is true that people have faced consequences for reading books to their class. It’s not make believe fear. [KM: Absolutely] At the same time, I feel like if there was ever something to defy, as an educator, book bans would be it — risks be damned, but that’s just me.

Kasey Meehan:

Yes, I think for people who have whatever kind of security that they need to be able to take that risk, for sure. We’ve seen the way in which librarians have really stood up and against, or educators have stood up and against censorship. And there’s an article that was going around today, Patty Hector, who was a librarian from Arkansas who was dismissed from her job. She has some great quotes: “I would rather be fired for supporting the First Amendment than sued for violating it.” She’s like: I have no regrets. I stood my ground, and if I got fired, so be it. But just think of that cost and that risk, it really is just an escalation of where we’re at.

Sam Goldman 24:33

You are in the middle of seeing all these books that are being banned. All of book bannings are concerning, but are there any books that you’re seeing that come up again, and again, that you’re like: Wow, this is really dangerous that this is being stolen from young people.

Kasey Meehan 24:51

Yeah. We often see the same lit appear across districts, across states, because, again, there is a coordinated effort to remove certain types of books. So, sometimes when one district receives a long list of books to be challenged, we see that same list pop up multiple states over. So it is quite coordinated. It’s such a hard question to ask, because now I feel attached to so many of these books that are being removed. When we think about kind of the most recently banned books, ‘Gender Queer’ is at the top. I’ve read Gender Queer. To me, it’s just a beautiful book about a young person navigating life. There are scenes that as a cis straight woman that I also really identified with and felt seen.

To remove that for individuals who are navigating their gender identity and their sexual orientation is a big loss. All Boys Aren’t Blue. When I read that book, I felt like it was a true love story to George Johnson’s family members. ‘Flamer’ is another graphic novel around a young LGBTQ+ boy at, like summer camp. It’s like sweet as pie to me. It’s hard for me to even rationalize where the fear and dislike of so many of these books come from. So, certainly there are many books that have more contemporary representations of LGBTQ+ experiences and lives, and I think those are the books that have not been on shelves before but certainly deserve to be in schools for students to access them.

The other book, of course, The Hate you Give, by Angie Thomas, is such a prolific book for young people, right up there with ‘The Poet X’ by Elizabeth Acevedo — they’re just contemporary reflections of like the real lives and conversations that young people are going through; particularly young people of color. So, to be able to have that as a resource, and then go see it in the movies, and then go by your Nike high tops and follow the character. I mean, it’s such… why would we remove that book? There are also so many picture books that I really love. The one book recently, there was an educator fired in Georgia for reading My Shadow is Purple. Uhh, it’s so sweet, so sweet.

I understand that it’s about gender identity, but as a young kid reading it, you’re probably not going to make that jump. You’re probably just going to think about the fact that everybody has a cool colored shadow and that’s really dope. Whether your shadow is purple, or blue or green, you get to be your own self and have your own funky color shadow. So when those types of books, when those young picture books are pulled too, it’s a harm on students, and it’s a real threat to, just the young people and the freedoms that they feel — to read, yes, but to also see themselves reflected in books and to see other people with different experiences than themselves reflected in books and to learn and empathize and grow from literature that’s already intentionally designed and curated and selected for young kids, young students. So, I gave you a long list.

Sam Goldman 27:31

I think it’s really helpful. I was muted, but I was, to myself, audibly being like: Yes, I love that book, and that looks so good. It’s heartbreaking to see so many of them go missing, so to speak. I wanted to kind of lean into where you were going in the conversation when you started talking about the harms that these bans cause. I wanted to look at it from the perspective of the impact and the harm that is done by bans, yes to individuals — you spoke to some of that, and I’m sure you have more to say on that — but also the impact on society at large and education at large, how you view that.

Kasey Meehan 28:13

When we talk about harm, it’s all levels. To the individual, to your students, your educators to your librarians. We have educators and librarians who are being called horrific things. The vitriol and the emotional cost and professional cost that is being pushed, already on professions that are underpaid and facing shortages in their profession.

Sam Goldman 28:34

Not to interrupt, but shat on from all sides.

Kasey Meehan 28:38

Right, it’s already a tough job, and then to just layer this on top… Some of the words that we see tossed around against educators and librarians, t’s just horrible, and it’s horrific, and it’s harmful. Then there’s the cost being put on our public school system. I had a group in a state tell me that there are efforts to respond to an organization, a local parents organization, that was challenging books will cost the district 20 to $50,000, estimate, just to respond to book challenges. I have heard other districts say it’s in the hundreds of thousands when they’re having to involve general counsel or lawyers or pay their librarians to come in over the weekend or over summer to go and review entire library collections across the district.

So, the cost and the burden that we’re seeing put on to public schools is really kind of scary. And public schools, as the you know, are on shaky grounds. 2020 in the pandemic was very hard for public schools. And what we’ve seen now is just a continuation of really intense pressures and threats on an already vulnerable institution. That’s the piece that will keep me up most at night, in addition to just wanting kids to have access to every book that they desire and have interest in, is the idea that these attacks are really intended to dismantle and disrupt a public infrastructure that is educating students and and is intended to serve all students and is intended to be the bedrock of our democracy, the way in which information is shared and knowledge is built and we unify across an increasingly pluralistic society. That’s really the goals of public ed, I would say, so to see that threatened is scary.

There was a quote from a an educator in South Carolina, she was like: Navigating book bans and censorship is like talking about Feng Shui when the house is on fire. I always think about that, because it’s there’s already so many things that we could be doing better to advance and improve upon our public schools, but to add this into it, it’s just adding complete chaos, really heavy disruptions, really big burdens and costs on an already stressed system.

Sam Goldman 30:43

Yeah, I think that’s kind of their goal. That’s part of it. Not only do they want to erase history, but whole peoples as well. The first step to doing that is making them disappear from the pages, as you were alluding to earlier. For the young people that get to see themselves in books, it is incredibly life affirming, and often life saving, but so to is seeing others that are unlike them. Fiction is the most powerful empathy builder for those who can’t travel. It transports you to not only places but to the many different ways that people can be in this world. For kids and young people, and adults to see themselves in people that are unlike them, is a game changer.

Kasey Meehan 31:34

I even have personal moments when I’ll be like: I was today years old — too old, really to be like learning or being introduced to something for the first time. Like, imagine if you just never had to feel that way, because you were enriched at such a young age with different histories and stories and cultures to help you broaden. To be like, in your late 30s, learning about the first time you’re like: Wait, what? How am I this old and I’m being introduced to this now? I’d say it’s yes to both. Yes to having true representation for individuals and also helping people with different lived experiences learn from each other and see each other.

Sam Goldman 32:10

Yeah. Personally, I think it goes a step further in limiting young people’s, in particular, ability to envision that there’s a different way that things could be. There’s the stripping away of history and the indoctrination of children in lies, which is 100%, true and horrific beyond belief, but there’s also the ways that this erodes the very ability of kids to imagine or think of a world that can be just, and I think that’s what happens when we take people’s heroes out of history. If you want folks to go along with the shredding of civil rights, democratic rights, you can’t have them in the pages for kids to see and learn about.

You can’t promote the most vicious white supremacist program — thanks DeSantis — and have books and ideas that celebrate blackness and anti racism; or go after, in the most horrendous ways, women and LGBTQ people — thanks, Texas — and have classrooms rich in examinations of issues around identity or patriarchy. So I think that these things come together often in ways that people might not immediately see, but often have something pernicious lying right beneath, even if people don’t want to go there.

Kasey Meehan 33:24

Absolutely. I was thinking too — I wish I had the source top of mind, but — I did just read something that was a little bit of like an aha moment. We often say that school classrooms — and I’m sure you can speak to this — school classrooms and school libraries are already skewed. There already is a bias, even in the publishing industry, like take schools out of it, the books that are being published are already predominantly white and hetero and the aligned with a kind of Christian vision.

What we have been seeing more and more is an effort to better diversify both books that are available for kids and adults. How does publishing re orient itself to be more inclusive and to have better representation of its authors of its identities in books? So we know that’s happening, like in real time, right. And then it’s this conflict of no, no. And the other thing I read recently was that children’s books, uniquely, have always had a role in offering a vision for what a future, more just, more equitable, society can look like.

Historically, children’s books maybe did that a little bit more subtly; more philosophical, or you know, it was like slightly behind the scenes that you had to understand the author’s intention to really get there, and I think amazingly what we’re seeing… [SG: Leo Lionni is my favorite example of that.] Yes! [chuckles] [SG: I don’t know if you can see it, I have my my “Tillie and the Wall”] I see, I see. [laughs] Right, and then we see like more children’s books now kind of being more explicit, being more clear, like “Anti Racist Baby”, “A is for Activism.” We had these really strong and powerful books that are just showing up differently. All these things are happening at the same time and what we see playing out in schools is just a real resistance to that progress; to advancing forward to something that’s more inclusive and just and representative and equitable of all people in our big world.

Sam Goldman 35:07

We’ve talked a lot on our show about the forces that are driving these book bans forward, like Moms for Liberty, for an example. What have you been up to with the Freedom to Read Initiative? What are some of the things that you all are specifically focused on?

Kasey Meehan 35:24

We have our biannual, our semi-annual book banning report. So I”ll also say to listeners: If you know of a book, then that’s happening, there’s a tip line on our webpage, you could find us at www.PEN/action, and you could share, let us know. Because a big part of this is, just for us, is raising awareness. The more we can count, the more we can quantify what’s happening, our theory of change here is that we raise awareness to activate public will; that the more people that know what’s happening, the more people will show up to oppose it.

That’s a big part of our work, is tracking every single book ban. We have a research team, and we always say they don’t miss. They are on it. They have not missed a book ban across the United States in two years, which is beyond impressive. And then we also partner with many, many groups locally. We have a fantastic partner in Florida, the Florida freedom to read project, which I suggest to follow. We’re coordinating with them around: Are we writing… is there a school board letter? Or do we want to put out a statement, or an explainer?

Just this week, we raised a case in Florida that’s unfolding at Collier County Public Schools where over 300 books were removed, seemingly without process, out of compliance with that state legislation. So, we’re working very closely with partners locally to elevate what’s happening, and to continue to mobilize and bring people in. We also have a working group in Texas that’s primarily parents across different ISDs that come together monthly to strategize how are we responding to legislation? How are we pushing back locally? And a similar group in Utah, the Let Utah Read Coalition, and then we have partners in Iowa, in South Carolina, in Michigan and Missouri. We’re a small team, but we try and be all over and we try and be as responsive as possible in helping folks push back.

Sam Goldman:

Were there any highlights from Banned Book week that you’d want people to know about? [KM: Yeah] Like, something that brought you the most joy or hope.

Kasey Meehan:

Banned Book Week, in general, I would say this all year, but PEN carried it all month. I do think we saw like a total saturation. It was just almost a jaw dropping moment when — we do this every day, but — to hear from so many influencers and organizations and celebrities and activists from across the country, using their voice to push back on book bans. That itself, the scale of it, was quite powerful to me.

But, I did get to attend an event in Austin, Texas, at Book People. Book People is a current plaintiff in legislation against the state, which has a piece of legislation that would impose ratings that independent booksellers and vendors of books would have to put a sexual rating on books. Book People and others are part of it, but aside from that ongoing litigation, we were able to celebrate books at BookPeople in Austin, and they brought Nicole Cardoza, who’s a magician — she’s a black female magician from Austin — she came and did a magic show, and then we connected it to just like the magic of storytelling and why. She referenced herself that growing up, that she wasn’t exposed to any representation of black female magicians, and it wasn’t until much later that she learned about a whole kind of network of some of the earliest magicians were black females that toured the country. And that learning that inspired her to pick it up. So it was just amazing to connect to that joy of magic. Storytelling is so magical. And books are so magical. And to really put that front and center in a cool way. That was a special event for me.

Sam Goldman 38:38

Thanks so much for sharing that. That sounds like a lot of fun.

Kasey Meehan 38:42

I know. I want to go on the road with both of them. [SG laughs] We need, you know, magic and storytelling to go on tour. It was so good. [chuckles] I was looking at all things PEN America, and I found that you’re doing a virtual event for high school students interested in opposing book bans. It’s ongoing. I think our fourth session, is this Thursday. We have a partnership with the Brooklyn Public Library to offer a Freedom to Read Advocacy Institute for high schoolers, and it’s a four week virtual series. So we’re just wrapping up our fall Institute, but we’ll have a spring Institute later. It’s incredible. There’s four modules. The first is: What is freedom to read? What is free expression?

What is the First Amendment? and what are your rights as students? The second is thinking more locally about school board meetings and how to get engaged and what are the guidelines or avenues in which students can be activists in their own community. And then our third and fourth session we bring authors whose works have been banned other student activists who have led the way they just have kind of like an open conversation between students across the country to learn from both authors and other peer activists. It’s really impressive. We have about a hundred students joining for this fall series. I look forward to doing it again in the spring.

Sam Goldman 39:53

That’s phenomenal. There’s sometimes push back now amongst those who aren’t as active in education, I guess I would say, where I’ll talk about book bans, and I’ll get something like: Well, they can just Google, now, things; they don’t need the books that we needed, or something like that. Or, like: Didn’t technology, change it, because they can learn about things that are too dark or whatever they tell themselves. How do you respond to that?

Kasey Meehan 40:23

Yeah, I mean, in some ways, that makes it even more confusing that we’re gonna try and remove books. It’s like, you know, young people have access to so much information on their fingertips. The idea that books would somehow be more harmful than [laughs] I don’t know, some other thing that we need to censor and remove books because of the risk they impose on students. Sometimes I think, like, that argument: Well, yeah, if you talk yourself around, like, do it.

You know, our issue here is not having books in classrooms and libraries. I mean, that’s important, and not really a risky activity here to put your kid in a library and tell him to read a book! What I worry we’ve forgotten a little bit, just like societally, and I think we mentioned this, is just why do we have public schools? Why do we have public libraries? Why do we have public school libraries? Why do teachers spend so much money and years generating a classroom library collection that is so meaningful to them? Because they think it’s going to connect so deeply with students in their classrooms.

The beauty of libraries is this like self inquiry piece that you can go and explore and pick up a book and put it back and pick up another book and put it back. And you might be able to take out a book from your school library that’s way above your reading level, and you bring that home, and maybe you and a parent gets to read it together. Or you might just bring home a book you could flip through the pages. That’s part of the joy of reading, and all of those things are known to increase literacy for young kids. Sometimes I think we need like a rebrand on: Libraries are important, and here’s why. And classroom libraries are cool and good. School libraries are cool and public libraries are cool, because they’re a true public resource for so many.

Sam Goldman:

As we close out the conversation, if folks want to get involved, or want to hear more from PEN America, or you, where should they go? What should they do?

Kasey Meehan:

The easiest way is to follow us on our social. We have a pretty active Instagram, I will only call it Twitter, and TikTok. So you can find us on social, and we will often update when we have, like petitions or sign on letters or cases of book bans, you can get that there. We also have an action page that I mentioned earlier, at www.PEN.org/action. So you could join on and see more updated mobilization and activations that PEN is running with many partners all the time. Then, I think locally, like something as simple as checking in with your librarian or taking a peek at your school districts reconsideration policies to see that they’re up to date. Go visit your public library, take out a banned book. Those are all really incredible small things to do.

Sam Goldman 42:57

I want to thank you so much Kasey, for the work that you do and for coming on and sharing your expertise and perspective and time with us.

Kasey Meehan 43:06

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for having this pod. I look forward to all your future episodes too. Now I’m a fan. You got another fan today too. [laughs]

Sam Goldman 43:13

Thanks for listening to Refuse Fascism. Got thoughts or questions off this episode? We want to hear them. Ideas for topics or guests? Yes, please. Send them to us! Have a skill you think could help? We want to know all about it. Reach me at the site previously known as Twitter @SamBGoldman. Drop me a line at [email protected]. Find Refuse Fascism on Threads, Mastodon, BlueSky, Instagram, wherever, @RefuseFascism — not wherever, those are the ones I think we’re on. I’m also — at the urging of Lina — I’m on Tik Tok @SamGoldmanRF, so I haven’t done that much there yet, but check it out, I’ll do some more.

You can also leave us a voicemail, we’d love to hear from you. I’m going to direct you to those show notes again, for that button. We’d love to hear your voice. Want to support the show? It’s simple. Show us some love by rating and reviewing on Apple podcast or your listening platform of choice. And of course, follow/subscribe so you never miss an episode. Become a patron to support our pod and content creation to help people understand and act to stop the fascist threat.

Give today at Patreon.com/RefuseFascism or visit RefuseFascism.org and hit that donate button. Sign up for $5 a month or more and you’ll get an invite for virtual Q&A with Coco Das, Paul Street and myself, on Wednesday, November 29, at 8pm Eastern time. Thanks to Richie Marini, Lina Thorne and Mark Tinkleman for helping produce this episode. Thanks to incredible volunteers, we have transcripts available for all our shows, so be sure to visit RefuseFascism.org and sign up to get them in your inbox. Until next Sunday, in the name of humanity, we refuse to accept a fascist America! Thanks, Kasey.

Before we close out I want to shout out all those organizing and participating in this weekend’s Stop Cop City, or Block Cop City, protests culminating tomorrow Monday, November 13 in a day of action in the forest where they plan to build Cop City, this truly massive militarized police training center in the middle of Atlanta. The mission with tomorrow’s action is to bring construction to a halt. Organizers, activists, even bail fund facilitators have been demonized with charges of terrorism, and 61 people are shouldering RICO indictments in an overt fascist attempt to criminalize protest and dissent with implications nationwide. We’ll be boosting their action on our socials. So follow us for more. And be sure to check out the show notes for a link to an episode on that topic.