Episode 285
Trump’s war on Iran is illegal, illegitimate and immoral. It has already killed thousands. It is
threatening to spiral into a far wider catastrophe.
At home: ICE terror continues. New camps are being built. More people are dying in detention.
Trans rights are being erased. Voices and media that doesn’t toe the fascist line find themselves
in the line of fire. Open white supremacy rides high. And MAGA daily steps up its preparation to
rig, steal, or otherwise subvert the elections.
Even if there are tensions within parts of the MAGA base—even if some who helped bring this
regime to power are uneasy about a wider war—the regime is hardening and escalating.
More war abroad. More repression at home.
Escalation of an illegitimate, illegal, and murderous war whose consequences will be
devastating for the people of Iran, the people of the entire region, people here in the United
States, and the future of humanity.
And yet, the decent people of this country are waiting for midterm elections to end this
nightmare.
Can elections stop a regime that is already undermining the conditions for free and fair
elections?
What happens if millions wait while fascism tightens its grip? The Democratic Party cannot be relied on to fight this fascism the way it must be fought.
But together, we can.
Join a Refuse Fascism Contingent at a No Kings event Nationwide on March 28
To get involved, text REFUSE to 855-755-1314 or sign up online, follow @RefuseFascism on social media (@RefuseFashizm on TikTok) and our YouTube channel: @Refuse_Fascism.
Support:
- Subscribe to Refuse Fascism on Substack
- patreon.com/refusefascism
- donate.refusefascism.org
- Venmo: Refuse-Fascism
- Buy merch (Big Cartel)
- Buy merch (Fourth Wall)
Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown
Episode 285: What Will it Take to Stop Trump?
Sun, Mar 22, 2026 6:19PM • 50:39
Sam Goldman 00:23
Welcome to Episode 285, of the Refuse Fascism podcast, a podcast brought to you by volunteers with Refuse Fascism. I’m Sam Goldman, one of those volunteers and host of the show. Refuse Fascism works unite all who can be united in mass, relentless, nonviolent resistance to drive the Trump fascist regime from power.
Today’s episode features a slightly edited version of a webinar that I hosted yesterday titled: Stop the War on Iran, Trump Must Go Now! What will it take to stop the war and stop this fascist regime? You’ll hear from Mike, a leader in the Refuse Fascism L.A. chapter, on how they’re planning on making an impact at No Kings Day, tips on organizing, and you’ll get ideas for how you can join and connect with Refuse Fascism at No Kings Day nationwide next Saturday, March 28. You’ll hear a presentation from myself answering that key question, and get ready to project these urgent demands — Stop the War on Iran! Trump Must Go Now! — next weekend.
As always, we want to give a heartfelt thank you to everyone who rates and reviews the podcast, supports us on Patreon, subscribes on Substack, picks up Refuse Fascism merch. That support is how this platform keeps going and growing. If you’re listening and haven’t done those things yet after the episode, take a moment, review the show, subscribe, become a patron, get a hat, get a t shirt. It helps us get these ideas out where they actually need to be. With that, here’s the webinar.
Just a week from today, people will gather, hopefully many, many millions, in over three thousand locations nationwide to declare: No Kings. What needs to resound at these protests? What will people be organized around? This is something that we’re going to get into today. We are coming together at a moment that is not normal and not something we can afford to watch from the sidelines. Right now, the U.S. is waging a war on Iran that is already killing thousands and threatening to spiral into something far more catastrophic.
At the same time, repression is accelerating here at home. The question anyone with a heart for humanity faces, the question that I know brought you on is: What will it actually take to stop this war and stop this fascist regime? and: What is our role in that? I’m gonna start by grounding us in the reality of what we’re facing in this fascist regime, and then take up the question of why the usual ways people think this will be stopped won’t, and what actually can. Then we’re gonna turn to organizing, what it means to make Refuse Fascism at No King’s Day a real force, and an opportunity to recruit people around this demand, Trump Must Go Now!
Let’s get into it, because what we’re facing is already very real and already escalating. Right now, in Iran, people are digging through the rubble of buildings that were standing just days ago — pulling out bodies, families, children after U.S. and Israeli strikes leveled entire neighborhoods. Each day for three weeks, has been filled with more atrocities against the Iranian people and other people in the region, more threats and escalating war crimes from Trump and Hegseth, combined with ever more destructive weapons, and the real danger of this war breaking through all constraints like a dam giving way and unleashing pure devastation. Trump’s unprovoked war of aggression on Iran is entering its fourth week. Let’s be clear, it is immoral, it is illegitimate, it is illegal. It is what international law calls the supreme war crime. It must be stopped. Trump Must Go Now!
Fascism is not looming, it is here. Every day, reality drives this truth home more forcefully. What we are confronting is not politics as usual. It is not simply the worst administration, the pendulum swinging hard right. What we are confronting is a fascist regime, a white supremacist, misogynist, American supremacist, anti-scientific, Christian fascist movement that rules through open terror and brute force — a regime that targets real or imagined enemies and seeks to crush anyone who resists. As Refuse Fascism has said before, the Trump regime is shredding fundamental rights and the rule of law, engaging in lawless international aggression, resurrecting genocidal white supremacy, subverting the elections, threatening judges and political opponents, disappearing immigrants into camps, demonizing whole peoples and nations, kidnapping and killing leaders of a sovereign nation.
I feel like somehow people have just moved past what happened in Venezuela. This regime is branding Anti Fascist protesters as “domestic terrorists.” They are deploying the military on U.S. soil — yes, still. They’re doing all this, while erasing LGBTQ people, with particular venom to our trans siblings. They are gutting science and accelerating climate collapse. This is all paving the way for boundless terror against the people. They are targeting everything that is decent, everything that is moral, everything that is good. And this, this is all at the whim of a debased tyrant. This is fascism. Fascism, well, it is not the worst curse word you can use to describe something you don’t like, it is a qualitative change in how society is ruled — not rule of law, but rule by brute force — not rights, but repression — not truth, but enforced lies. It does not rely on majority support. It relies on power, on fear, and it relies on the passivity of those who oppose it.
For many at the top of this regime, this is fused with the fanatical Christian fascism, a belief that their violence is righteous, is godly, that they are carrying out a higher mission, and that anyone in the way must be crushed. This is extremely dangerous. I want us to take a moment to just look at how far along the road we already are. We have anti ICE and antifascist protesters being branded as domestic terrorists. Sweeping conspiracy charges are being used to criminalize dissent. Immigrants are being disappeared into camps; tens of thousands already detained with plans for tens of thousands more in concentration camps set up in warehouses across the country.
I wanna share this statement from Ender, a 12 year old from Venezuela who was living in Austin, Texas, and has been detained for over 60 days, well past the limit for a minor in the Dilly concentration camp. He wrote: “More than 60 days, going to the doctor, and that the only thing they tell you is to drink more water. And the worst thing is that it seems the water is what makes people sick here.” In addition to the cruel and brutal treatment being inflicted on our immigrant siblings, who are being hunted, kidnapped and thrown into camps, this regime isn’t only physically repressing and constraining people, it is moving to control what people even know. Government officials are threatening media outlets, telling them to correct their coverage of the war, or risk losing their ability to report at all.
So I want to return to this war. Listen carefully to the language coming from the people running this regime and running this war. Pete Hegseth, a crusading Christian fascist zealot, as I mentioned earlier, who believes he’s carrying out God’s will, has been openly boasting about fighting this war sans any pretense of U.S. or international law. He said: “No quarter, no mercy for our enemies.” For those who might be unfamiliar, “no quarter” means executing prisoners. It means killing people who surrender or are wounded instead of taking them prisoners. That’s not just brutality, it’s a war crime — one that’s been banned since the Civil War, outlawed by the Hague and Geneva Conventions, and it’s prohibited in the Pentagon’s own rules. Yet, Trump’s war secretary is saying it like it’s a slogan, boasting, he promises, “death and destruction from the sky all day long.” Sneering at the Geneva Convention as “stupid rules of engagement.” And when asked about Iran, he said, the only people who should be worried are “Iranians who think they’re going to live.”
We need to be clear, this is the language of atrocity. This is the language of regimes that are preparing people to accept even greater atrocity. He is not just describing what has been done, he’s signaling what’s coming. And we do need to confront what already has been done; thousands of people killed in Iran, millions displaced, families fleeing cities under bombardment. In Minab, the U.S. bombed a school. People that led the school took all the students somewhere that they thought would be safer, and that’s when the second missile hit. Children, teachers, rescuers killed, families killed. Now the regime is openly preparing for the next stage, a ground invasion.
Trump is demanding, “unconditional surrender.” Trump’s promise to the American ruling classes is that breaking down the rule of law, domestically and yes, internationally, will enable the U.S. empire to brazenly pursue its interests using the full lethal force of the most powerful and lethal military the world has ever known. This is naked imperial aggression on a scale that could literally spell catastrophe for humanity. So this is why Refuse Fascism says we cannot allow this fascist madman to keep his finger on the nuclear trigger. This war serves another purpose: It gives this regime a pretext to escalate even graver repression at home, to crush dissent, shred law and consolidate greater power. This is how fascism rules: terror abroad, repression at home, and the demands that people fall in line or be crushed. T
his reveals something fundamental: Fascism, as I said earlier, doesn’t rely on majority support, it relies on power, on fear, on the passivity of people who oppose it. And yet, in regards to this illegal, illegitimate immoral war, too many people are fixating on gas prices, while ignoring the slaughter of thousands in Iran. The normalization, the accommodation that must end, precisely because fascism doesn’t just advance through brutality from above. It advances through acceptance below. So if this is true, if fascism has already far advanced, if it is now fused with a war that threatens humanity, then the conclusion is unavoidable: the regime must be driven from power, now.
We need to be demanding, en masse, everywhere, an end to this illegal, illegitimate, immoral war on Iran. We must demand Trump Must Go Now! In the Name of Humanity, We Refuse to Accept a Fascist America. So the question is: What will it actually take to stop this war and stop this regime? As I said, we’re facing fascism at home through its terror and trampling of rights, and abroad, through its savage violations of international law; it’s war crimes and crimes against humanity. There’s no living with this fascism. It’s committing unspeakable atrocities now and every day. It will not go away on its own. It will not blow over.
Just consider that everything I’ve discussed has been just a little over a year in power. It must be defeated. Any reasonable person then says: Well, how can this fascism be defeated? Refuse Fascism has made clear again and again, the political force that has the power and the interest in defeating this fascism and doing so in a way that can bring about something positive, is the masses of decent people in this country — the millions and millions of decent people in this country, rising up, not just once to make a point, but again and again and again, in sustained, unrelenting, uncompromising resistance that does not stop until we have created such a profound political crisis that this sharpens up the very real divisions at the top of society, and compels those in power who are opposed to this fascism, but who up to now have been paralyzed and compromising, to stand up and remove the regime. While this aims to push on the divisions at the top, it is designed to change the terms from below, to create the conditions where our demands are met: the Trump Fascist Regime Must Go Now!
This is very, very different than accepting the terms set by those at the top and then working within those terms, relying on the normal political procedures. That is a loser. Why is that a loser? The Democrats are trying to hold on to the norms of how this country has been ruled for 150 years or so since the Civil War, and use the norms to fight against Trump. But a core part of Trump’s Fascism is not just to ignore those norms, but to utterly smash and shatter them. The Democrats file a lawsuit after a lawsuit against Trump — for deploying the military in their cities, violating due process of immigrants, cold blooded murder of U.S. citizens, assault on voting procedures, on the media and more — but Trump and his ICE thugs are violating court orders every day.
Everyone knows that eventually, these challenges make their way up to the Supreme Court, which is packed with a fascist super majority. The Democrats talk about returning to civility and the virtues of bipartisanship. Meanwhile, Trump’s thugs have assaulted, arrested and threatened Democratic politicians again and again. Trump accused Democratic lawmakers of treason for telling troops they did not have to follow illegal orders, and his weaponized Justice Department actually investigated them and sought charges. Stephen Miller has called the Democratic Party an extremist organization, and they are actively stepping up politicized prosecutions against peaceful protesters.
The Democrats focus on elections, and are trying to focus you on elections, talking about the midterms and building momentum towards 2028, but look at how fast Trump is moving. Humanity cannot wait that long. Besides, the regime is stealing the election right now, and is highly unlikely to accept a loss that could jeopardize their tightening grip on total power. Nobody should expect the tyrant who incited January 6th to seriously respect an election he loses. Since 2020, MAGA has infiltrated the election apparatus with hardened election deniers.
Last year, Trump compelled fascist state governments to openly gerrymander districts by not only politics but race, and he got the Supreme Court to sign off on that and much more. Speaking of the Supreme Court, this will be the first election where Trump has preemptive immunity for any crimes he commits from the Oval Office. If they can pass the Save [America] Act, it will effectively suppress untold votes. And if they don’t pass it, it will provide cover for their claims that the results are rigged. But Trump has expressed that he’ll implement basically voter suppression via executive order, and this regime is prepared to send their ICE goons out to intimidate.
This regime is a regime of 21st Century American fascists who believe that they are the only legitimate rulers of this country. They don’t believe that people are actually illegally voting. They believe that all the people of color, all the naturalized citizens, all the women and all the queer folk should be criminalized — that the only people who should have the right to vote are cis het white men, and really only those who vote Republican, and they are making real moves to implement that. Once again, the force that could defeat Trump and MAGA Fascism is millions of decent people rising in sustained, nonviolent resistance, so powerful that we together create a political crisis that makes this regime unable to govern or even hold power. This is possible.
This is why we need to be getting the clear demand: Stop the War on Iran. The Trump Fascist Regime Must Go Now! and these key dividing lines: Fascism is not looming, it is here; Trump’s war of aggression against Iran is illegitimate, illegal and immoral, it must be stopped; and: Relying on the Democrats is a deadly delusion. We need to be getting those out all over at No Kings Day, and all over society after that. We’re gonna have a flyer that’s going to be available to you soon. The people right now are not ready, now, to move in their millions for the sustained, relentless, non violent resistance. But that could change, and we have to be A) shaping that by spreading these demands and B) building up this network and understanding to be able to lead that where it needs to go, as its possibility opens up. So with that, I want to welcome Mike, an organizer with the L.A. chapter, to share a little bit about organizing Refuse Fascism at No Kings Day.
Mike, Los Angeles 17:09
Thank you, Sam.
Sam Goldman 17:09
Welcome Mike. Thanks so much for joining. I hear that you’re doing an art build today.
Mike, Los Angeles 17:13
Yeah, we’re gonna put a bunch of picket signs together, and we find that pretty powerful, so that we can not just have the poster, but as people are marching, as we’re marching down the street downtown L.A. have the picket sign up high so that people are seeing that demand everywhere. That’s one of the reasons I’m crazy about wearing this shirt. I even have one muscle cut for the gym that I wear to the gym, because getting the demand out as much as possible, and showing people that we’re clear and we’re focused one demand is a really powerful thing. I have more and more people, especially as the insanity gets more insane, more and more people coming up to me and starting conversations about it.
A big part of this too, is not letting No Kings Day just be one day. Like Sam talked about it needs to be a sustained movement. Some of what I’ve kind of seen, both in L.A. and just in my social media circle over the last year… I did expect, I’ll be honest with you, I expected not, having a long activist history, and just seeing how clearly terrible he is, how much of a fascist he is, I expected us to rise up, like instantly, get him out by the end of last year, and we’ve seen that’s just not quite where people are at. What we’ve seen is, I think there’s a lack of belief, like that his is possible.
A lot of people still think Trump Must Go, that’s a nice idea, but, yeah, right. They think it’s aspirational. They aren’t seeing… I think what we need to spread a lot is examples in history that this has been done repeatedly, over and over again, even as recently as Bulgaria in December, got their government to resign through sustained protests. What was really powerful to me about the Bulgaria example is that they’re they’re protesting largely after work. So that’s something everyone can step into. You don’t have to necessarily quit your job or stop working. Examples like that are really powerful for people, but also community. We had someone a couple months ago, a historian and resident of the Chilean resistance get involved with the chapter and kind of tell us about what she learned from the Chilean resistance.
A big lesson there — it’s not a perfect parallel for a lot of different reasons, but — one big lesson that I think we can take is the power of community; coming together, having neighborhoods, that kind of thing, where people are really, truly relating and trusting each other and building relationships. So that’s one thing we’re trying to build here. In terms of that, we already have a plan in place in April, three weeks after No Kings Day, for a pretty big two day event. Now that may not apply to everyone. Definitely check it out. Look out for that. It’ll be called Double Down Against Fascism, a Weekend of Refusal.
But even if you don’t have an event already planned, it doesn’t have to be big. What we need to do is work towards that community and work towards that sustained resistance. So we’re gonna have flyers, for example, with a couple different actions for people to plug right into that we meet at No Kings Day. We’re gonna have an in person kind of casual, community type, relational type, little event at a restaurant the next day, probably a restaurant somewhere with AC. It’s going to be very hot downtown L.A. next weekend, so after people are out there for No Kings Day, we want to get them in a kind of a more relaxing, comfortable environment the next day.
Not everyone is gonna be up for coming out to an in person thing the very next day. So we’re also gonna have a Zoom meeting planned for Tuesday of that following week, so people who are really gung ho and ready to meet other people, ready to be in community in real life, can come to the thing the next day. Then if you’re not as ready or you can’t make it on Sunday the 29th, we’ll have a Zoom organizing meeting on Tuesday of that following week. So having plans built in for what’s next and being able to plug people right into that, I think, is pretty powerful. And we’re even having, leading up to No Kings Day, also in terms of continuing to build the contingent.
We’ve had a couple Zoom calls, and I’m gonna have two more for L.A. this week, one on Tuesday, so it’s not like right after the weekend — people get back to work, get back in the flow, and then they start seeing about on Mobilize (national website) and on social media: Okay, there’s a Zoom meeting on Tuesday — and they’re starting to think more about No Kings Day. Then I’m gonna have another last minute one on Thursday evening just to catch anyone else who’s like: Oh, I need a plan, or I’m I’m afraid I’m going alone by myself; or: What are we doing? I kind of want to go, but this is just another one day protest — they see our post, they see our mobilized listing.
So that type of thing — having plans before and especially following, so that you’re really building something, and you’re showing people that it’s not just a one day protest, and there’s an organization with clarity of focus, one unifying demand, because I think that’s part of why a lot of the liberal movements struggle too, is there are so many great demands that are really, absolutely justified, and we should have them in this country, but they can go kind of all over the place. Like, if you look at a general strike handout, they’re great, and I agree with almost all of them, but it’s so much, versus having that one focus that goes to the top. Like you were talking about, we need to get Trump out for any of the futures that we want to be possible. Those are my overall thoughts. I know I threw a lot out there.
Sam Goldman 22:42
I appreciate it. It was helpful to think about how we can build these contingents, and then: What are we doing together as a contingent? and then: What are we doing after? And thinking about those three buckets. I do want to say to some others who may not be part of chapters, you can still be part of getting this demand and building this movement wherever you are. If you’re not part of a Refuse Fascism chapter, you can join one. You can start one. Maybe you are near where a contingent is happening, and if there isn’t a contingent happening near you, you’re in luck, all you need to do is grab a friend, a sister, a brother, a cousin — grab a few people, a neighbor. You can print out signs from the website. There’s signs that you can print out right at home, and you can bring them. You can get together, like Mike and other areas are doing, and make a banner, make signs together.
Even if you’re just four people and you have a big banner that says, “Trump Must Go Now!” and “RefuseFascism.org,” you’re part of building this. Make signs on cardboard that say, “Stop the War on Iran RefuseFascism.org”, and on the other side, “Trump Must Go Now!” and you’re part of this. Another way that you can be part of this movement, of course, is by donating. You’re not part of something. Maybe you can’t make it to a No Kings action. Maybe you can.
Either way, you can donate generously to make sure that the millions in the streets get this demand, leave with the tools they need to spread it everywhere — get their lawn signs and other things that can be part of spreading this demand, and, most importantly, building the organization that’s needed to be able to impact things when there is an opening for what we’re calling for. I wanted to ask Mike if you have any ideas from your own experience on how you’ve gone about building the contingent? What should we be doing in this week to have as many people as possible be part of projecting these demands and this movement at No Kings? Because it really does make a difference, the more people you have.
Mike, Los Angeles 24:29
Something I think everyone can do to whatever degree you’re comfortable with it on social media is making the argument that this doesn’t have to end at No Kings Day, and that there is an organization, or even if you’re on your own, that you’re a supporter of an organization that that has an actual strategy that’s backed up by history many times. There’s actual thinking beyond this, and there’s a way to work towards the political crisis that we need to happen to drive this regime out. Something I posted yesterday was like: “Experience what a real movement with strategy and thinking, clarity and focus looks like.” So making those kind of arguments, I think, to people. Whether it’s as a chapter or even on your own, like, this is why I believe in Refuse Fascism.
What got me when I first started protesting, really, for the first time in my life last year, going out on my own, and then I started to see these Trump Fascist Regime Must Go! signs. I’m like: Those are my people, they have focus, they’re very clear. That’s what got me, and that’s why I’m so crazy about the demand myself. So like talking from your own personal perspective on like, why Refuse Fascism resonates with you, why the demand resonates with you.
Sam Goldman 25:59
I think that’s really helpful. I think that your point about making the argument to people. It’s why I spent time… people might have thought: Why are you talking about this being fascism, and we can’t live it, we know that that’s why we’re there. But the reality is, we have to be able to make that argument again and again in living ways, because it’s exactly why — that people understanding that this is fascism — has everything to do with why the solution can’t be something other than what we’re calling for. If you really understand what it is that we’re confronted by, then this becomes a very, very reasonable response. Not just the only moral response to a regime that threatens humanity and the planet itself, but the only real strategic response.
The other piece you know you were talking about: What’s next? I think we have to be real: The majority of people at No Kings Day are going to hear something very different than us. What they’re gonna hear is that all their energies, all their hopes, all their time, all their resources, should be put into the midterms and elections. We need to be upfront that relying on the Democrats is a deadly delusion. We need to rely on ourselves, on each other — that the Democrats aren’t going to wage the fight needed to defeat fascism, not now, they haven’t, or in the future. We have to be real. They whine about protocol and argue for being included. If we put our faith and our energy into the midterms, we are making a dangerous miscalculation. This is a regime that’s stealing the election right now.
As I said before, it’s highly unlikely to accept a loss that could jeopardize their tightening grip on total power. We need to tell people the force that can do it. I think that we just need to realize how precious what we’re bringing into these… that nobody’s going to hear it if we don’t bring it. So the more people that we have together, the stronger our ability to impact that and to make it into a recruitment event. One thing that New York did that I would recommend to other organizers is to have a goal for how many people you want in your contingent, and what are we striving for? What are we working for? And share that with other people that are organizing with you, so they can go and they can invite two friends.
So if you’re going to join a contingent, make sure that you’re bringing people with you to the Refuse Fascism contingent, including people who’ve never joined a protest before. I think that’s a great way to go about it. I guess two more questions. You talked about some of your after plans which were really helpful. What are your plans or thoughts or ideas, things you’re going to try this time to really make an impact? What your thoughts on if we’re starting small, how are we gonna really make an impact at no Kings Day and recruit people into this?
Mike, Los Angeles 28:49
One thing we’re doing is we’re gonna have a table. The biggest No Kings protest in L.A. is at City Hall. That’s where it starts. We’re gonna have a table set up way early. We’re gonna be set up by 1:00. We’re telling people publicly to get there by 1:00. We’re gonna get there significantly earlier than that, and set up a table, an organizing table, and have lots of flyers. We also do have some merch that we’re going to have out there, the picket signs that we’re making today, to get into people’s hands. So that, even if they are new, we can be getting that demand out. Hopefully they decide to march with us, at least they have that demand there. If they’re marching with their friends or they get separated from us, they still have that demand.
Then I think once the program starts, and you do want to also be aware that sometimes these programs that we’re not setting up on our own, we have to be kind of on top of things. Because last No Kings Day, we thought the program was gonna go an hour before the March, and then it’s a beautiful thing, because it became bigger than Indivisible, or 50501, or any organization that was there, and people just started; we’re ready to go, we’re marching. It was like: Oh, we’ve gotta be on top of it and be ready to go. Just have that thinking in your mind, that things may be a little unpredictable, in terms of the flow of the day.
But once we start marching, we’re gonna have one or two people stay back at our at our organizing table, stay with our stuff, and also so that people who maybe, they’re not marching, or they come back early, they can see our logo, our banner, and be like: Oh, who are these people? And we can still be organizing, meeting new people. Also something I like to ask people is, like: Is there anything particular out of this fascism madness that brings you out? Then that gives an opportunity to start creating a connection based on what’s most important to them; what’s top of mind for them. But once the march starts, I think whether it’s two people, whether it’s 20, whether it’s a couple hundred, I think that definitely having everybody together… four people looks a little more powerful and a little more visible than two people. Even two people looks more than one.
During the march, definitely still having flyers on the side that you can hand to people as you pass by them, have conversations kind of as the march is moving, if it’s moving more slowly, but having your core group as much as possible together, so that it kind of shows Whoa. This is a little bit of an organization, or people are together on this. It’s not just individuals.
Sam Goldman 31:12
That is really important. I just wanted to lift up a few things that you said. Your point on cohesion and being a magnet that people come to is really important. When we’re looking at what hopefully will be really, really large crowds, how do you impact them? Part of what Mike’s getting at is you can be a magnet, if you’re together, you know, visually cohesive. That’s where the orange t-shirts with the demand are so helpful, with signs.
I know one of the ways that San Francisco, NorCal, goes about it is they have this big yellow banner that just pops; you can see it from wherever. That’s part of how you become a magnet. If you’re all spread out, you know, if you have, let’s say, 20, 25, people in your contingent, and you’re all spread out, you really can’t get to that many people. You’re going to one by one instead of people coming to you. That’s the great thing about having a table, is you’re getting people to come to you. The great thing about having a contingent and a group of people together is the ability to also have people take on different roles, to agitate, to make the argument that Mike’s talking about that we need to make — those three points that I was saying before: This is fascism, it’s here; The war on Iran is illegal, illegitimate, immoral, it must be stopped; and: Relying on the Democrats is a deadly delusion. It’s up to us. The Trump fascist regime must be driven from power.
Those few things, bringing that to life and having chants that people can join in, that’s how we can recruit many people on the spot. Right now, we are talking about getting ready for No Kings Day, and talking about what it will take to stop this war and this fascist regime. Part of what that means is that this demand needs to get out everywhere. As I said towards the end of my remarks, right now, the people are not ready to do what needs to be done. They’re not ready to move in their millions, in relentless, mass, nonviolent resistance. That’s our long term strategy. Right now, they’re not ready to do that, but that could change.
We have to be part of shaping that by getting these demands everywhere — by getting: Stop This War On Iran! everywhere. Through lawn signs, through banner drops, through stickers, through posters in windows and plastered on the walls, getting Trump Must Go Now! everywhere; in your window, on your campus. And by building this network up, which is part of what Mike was talking about on why you need community and why you need events that bring people together and deepen people’s understanding, why you do art builds, and why we’ve gotta give people responsibility so that we can lead that where it needs to go, if and as this possibility opens up. We were talking about the contingents themselves and how to be a magnet. Mike gave some thoughts on how to recruit people on the spot.
Mike, Los Angeles 34:13
One thing I meant to say earlier was, going back to the community and angle of it again: One thing that was really important in the Chilean resistance was these neighborhood councils, these neighborhood assemblies, they were very big on. So that’s part of why we’re doing an in person thing on on Sunday, is to build that community. There’ll be a little political framing, of course, a little talking to things, but more connection, more pure connection and relating and help build that feeling of connection to other human beings and something bigger than yourself.
One thing we’ve we’ve done in the past, and we’ve started doing again, is community pot lucks — where, again, there is some political framing/talking about things, but a lot of it is just connecting. I think that’s something important for, really, all of us to think about. For example, our first day of this event in April will be all about community and culture — really focusing on that — always having the demand in there and political framing, but really putting some space for just connection, so that we feel more connected and we believe in each other. Along with that, again, reminding people that this isn’t just aspirational, this is something that’s been done again and again, and we can do it here.
Sam Goldman 35:24
That’s really important. As we’re talking about building up organization, one of the ways to do that is to recruit people on the spot to be part of these contingents, and then all go out together afterwards, get pizza or, you know, sit outside and talk with each other for a bit. People want to take responsibility at these things, but oftentimes they don’t know what to do. Many times people are looking for something. They do know that the idea of relying on midterms is delusional. So then what do they do? So being able to have, either big QR codes, or read out the number for people to text so they can sign up on the spot — to have opportunities for people to contribute, to donate to this — having clear, on the spot ways that they can take this up; Here’s a stack of the flyers, and here’s a sign, and you can hold the banner, or: You can lead the chant. Having chant sheets available. Those types of things are ways to build this network.
Sam Goldman36:57
Mike, is there anything else that you want to say about how projecting at No Kings, Stop the War On Iran, The Trump Fascist Regime Must Go Now. Any other thoughts? Do you have a favorite chant that you think we need to do now?
Mike, Los Angeles 37:06
I just want to raise that up, because that makes things so easy for people. If you have a chapter Instagram, have the Instagram handle on there too, and, of course, the website. But the QR code is so easy for people. From my own experiences last week trying to get a poster together for the April event, the lesson I just learned this week is: 1) There are easy QR code makers. So if you just google “QR code maker,” there are great ones out there. Before you print a big stack of anything, print one and make sure multiple phones actually scan it and it works.
Sam Goldman 37:19
Yeah, Trump must go now, or the Trump must go, Trump must go now! anything like that. I feel like it’s short. It’s catchy. Any other favorite in the group that any chant favorites that you guys are going to take out?
Mike, Los Angeles 37:31
ICE Gestapo, we say no, now’s the time for Trump to go! That’s another one that’s also very popular.
Sam Goldman 37:38
That’s a great one. The thing about that is you can also pop in other things, like: War on Iran, we say no, Now’s the time for Trump to go. I think that’s a really good one. The danger, danger is popular for people who don’t know that it’s the Danger, danger, there are Fascists in the White House, It’s up to us to drive them out. The people united want Donald Trump indicted — I see that. I just want to thank you guys. I don’t want to take away from your art build, but I want to thank you so much for coming and sharing what you’re doing to build these contingents to make the impact that needs to be made so we can recruit more people and grow and grow this movement. We can’t wait to see what y’all do. We’ll be looking to @RefuseFascismLA on Instagram, and and wish you the best.
Mike, Los Angeles 38:23
Thank you, Sam.
Sam Goldman 38:24
Again, if you’re not part of a chapter, don’t have a contingent, there are things that you can print at home. Or if you’re artistic, you can look at what’s online, the slogans and stuff, and you can make them on your own posters. If you can’t get the shirt in time, you can just wear an orange shirt — write Trump Must Go Now! on it. Another effective thing when you get a group of people engaged and listening to your agitation, making sure to call out: If you want the Trump Fascist Regime to Go Now, text NOW to 855-755-1314. Have people repeat it. Have a sign with that number. That’s also a way that people can donate to, if they text Support to that same number. Wearing your shirt really does start that conversation, and when you have a few people wearing it together, it makes a bigger impact. I don’t know, Jay, if you wanted to talk a little bit about Chicago and North Carolina’s plans, because I knew that you knew some of them if you thought they would be helpful to share.
Jay, Chicago 39:20
In Chicago a couple of times we have done a This is Fascism procession, where we have a kind of a funeral drum march. We march single file, all in black with a sign, and each sign has another, you know, Wars of Aggression. Now, we have Kidnapping People off the Streets. Each one has a sign of fascism. This time, on the backside, we’re going to have images of people who have been killed. We’ve had an immigrant father who was shot dead here in a suburb of Chicago. Obviously, Alex Pretti and Renee Good, but also the school girls in Iran. Then we want to do a “die in,”There’s No Living with Fascism. Then, you go, 10, 9, 8, 7, and then you rise up. You know, Trump Must Go Now!
So that’s the plan. We have a couple other ones that, like Mike was saying, you have to keep your eyes out what’s happening. Sometimes opportunities develop that you don’t expect, but if you’re prepared to take advantage of them… like doing a die in at an intersection, you know, you have to have some monitors to clear the path. Tell people: Hey, we want to do a die in. People usually like that, and they will give you two minutes to do that. It can be very, very dramatic, and it’s very important. This is what’s happening, people! It’s not just a day to be out, family friendly. Okay, we do want families to be there, but we are at a tipping point in this country and the world, and we want to illustrate that.
We have the experience with the procession, which, again, like Mike was saying: We’ve had people come to be part of it who we never met before. When we put out the invitation, if you want to be part of this procession, come early. We have our meeting spot. We had a giganto one in October, 75,000 people. So you have to have a meeting spot that is big but also easy to find. So that’s our basic plan.
Sam Goldman 41:20
Yeah, that’s really important, your point about making sure that people know your meeting spot and that it’s someplace that they’ll actually be able to find. Hopefully, we’re not talking about a few thousand people. Hopefully we’re talking about tens of thousands of people at most of these, hopefully. In the big cities, I’m really, really hoping it’s hundreds of thousands. In order to project these demands and bring people in, people need to be able to find us, right? So if we just say, look for this sign and there’s hundreds of thousands of people, that’s not gonna be realistic. So we wanna think through where people are gonna find us, and that we have things that are big enough or clear enough so that people can find us.
I really thought the point of, There’s No Living with Fascism as a visual, such a great idea, that more people could take up. Even if you don’t have time to make the whole procession, even if you do a die in, if there is a march… you know what, at some of these places, it’s gonna be really big, and they’re not marching. I’m not saying do it in the middle of it, but you could be on the edge of it. Do a die-in and say: There’s No Living with Fascism.
My one recommendation, as always, is, when you’re doing a procession or you’re doing a snake march, or you’re doing a die-in or you’re doing something, always make sure that there’s people who are saying who you are and what you’re doing and how to join that you have people on the sides or at the back, in addition to somebody in the front videotaping or photographing, saying: We’re Refuse Fascism; If you agree that Trump Must Go Now! If you agree that this war needs to stop now, we need you! Creating a way that people can be part of this and that they know who we are that’s doing this. Was there anything about North Carolina’s plans that you wanted to share?
Jay, Chicago 43:00
Indivisible and Refuse Fascism are working very closely. They have amazing plans. They’re having four feeder marches from different points in the city to the main plaza downtown, where all the government buildings are. They already have drones that are gonna be photographing these marches, and then it will converge in the center of town with Trump Must Go Now! It’s gonna be very dramatic and a very big change from the past. Greensboro is a city, but it’s not that big, and it’s going to be very impressive.
Sam Goldman 43:34
That is so great. I want to thank you so much for sharing those things. It’s helpful when we learn what we can replicate in other areas and learn from each other to build up the organization that we need to bring more people into this and to share this understanding with the, hopefully, millions that will be out. If you are not part of a chapter, be sure to see if in your area there’s a Refuse Fascism contingent and march with us. Or if there’s not a march, be with us at No Kings Day. If there is no contingent near you, you can still be a part of it. We still need you to be a part of it. You can grab a friend, a neighbor, depending on your co workers, a co worker, a family member, or two, or five. Get together, print out some signs from the Refuse Fascism website — Stop the War on Iran with the website, or: The Trump Fascist Regime, Must Go Now! with the website, and hold those or make a banner with Trump Must Go Now! Stop the War on Iran and the website, and hold it together and chant, and you become a contingent.
This matters so much. We are going to be bringing, really, the only way out of this nightmare to people who are sick of the ICE terror, many people who are sick of the war, but who need to be struggled with, that it is not enough to not like it. It’s not enough to oppose it. We actually have to stop it. We have to stop it, not because it’s affecting us, but we have to stop it because it’s illegitimate, immoral and illegal. And they have to know that there’s a movement that they need to be a part of, that we together, we are our only chance. So there are three points that on no kings day a week from today, we want people to see clearly and act accordingly.
One is that Fascism is not looming. It’s here.
Two, that Trump’s war of aggression against Iran is illegitimate, illegal and immoral, it must be stopped — that if you don’t see the accelerating danger of global, even nuclear war, you are sleepwalking. Really, the streets of this country should be filled with protests at every murderous assault on the people of Iran. So we need to bring that demand, really, into No King’s Day next Saturday.
And, Three, that relying on the Democrats is a deadly delusion, that we must rely on ourselves, that the Trump fascist regime must be driven from power, that there is a force that can defeat Trump fascism, and it’s us. It’s the people in our millions rising again and again in nonviolent resistance — in protest, so powerful that we create a political earthquake from below that makes the regime unable to govern or hold power. So we’re gonna go out next Saturday, and we’re going to be on a mission to project the demand and organize people, recruit people to make sure that people get connected with refuse fascism, that they’re following us on social media, as Mike was talking about, that they’re signing up at RefuseFascism.org as people were talking about with the QR codes, that people are getting organized that they’re joining our chapter.
Maybe we’re doing an event the next week. Maybe we’re having a film showing. Maybe we’re doing a potluck that we build the movement that’s raising the demand: The Trump Fascist Regime Must Go Now! In the Name of Humanity. We Refuse to Accept a Fascist America! and that one way that people can do that is getting stickers, getting posters, getting lawn signs, getting banners with the demands out everywhere. Then sharing the flyer that we’re going to have, making sure that everybody that’s there doesn’t just leave with one, but they leaves with stacks to go spread with others. I just want to emphasize again, that if you are in a position to give, whether you can give $5, $25, $500, we need to get these materials out everywhere, at these protests nationwide, and we cannot do that without funds period, including those that you’re able to give.
Give as much as you can today, or to your local chapter, if you’re part of a local chapter, so that we can get this demand out at No Kings nationwide. Thanks, Mike, for giving examples on how to organize, including follow up events — awesome. I just want to thank you one more time, everybody that’s tuning in. And more important, thank you to everybody who’s going to be out there bringing this message, bringing these demands to No Kings nationwide. It’s so important. Just imagine what what difference it would make if we could have a turning point where, at these protests, it isn’t only the expression of outrage and disgust that then gets funneled away from the actions that are needed and towards really a death trap of waiting and relying on elections.
But if people were raising the demands that This War Must Be Stopped, It Must Be Stopped Now! This Trump Fascist Regime Must Go Now! That’s only going to happen because together, we bring that demand and we fight for it. We build these contingents and raise these demands, and we raise people’s sights, and we raise people’s understanding of what it is that we face in the ways we need to act, and that we organize people to move forward. And I just want to thank everyone who’s been participating, who’s been sharing their experience, their ideas, their questions, all the different ways that we can act. This is exactly what we need so much more of once again, let’s go. Let’s do this. In the Name of Humanity, We Refuse to Accept a Fascist America. To find contingents, flyers, posters and other Refuse Fascism resources for No Kings Day and beyond. Visit RefuseFascism.org or see the show notes. Of course, we want to see your No Kings Day photos and videos. Tag us on social media @RefuseFascism.
Thanks for listening to Refuse Fascism. Support the show by becoming a patron at Patreon.com/RefuseFascism, subscribing to our Substack for picking up some of our merch. See the show notes. For $0 you can help grow this community by sharing this episode with a friend or lots of friends or strangers on the internet by rating and reviewing it on Apple podcasts or your listening platform of choice, by becoming a free subscriber to our Substack and recommending our Substack to others.
As always, stay connected and get involved at RefuseFascism.org and on social media @RefuseFascism, you can also text REFUSE to 855-755-1314, so you’re always in the loop about developments and actions. And last but not least, thank you to Richie Marini, Lina Thorne and Mark Tinkleman for helping produce this episode and every episode of Refuse Fascism. Until next time, In the Name of Humanity, We Refuse to Accept a Fascist America.