Episode 268
As we countdown to November 5, we’re sharing some critical analysis and testimony from participants in this movement and beyond.
First, Sam provides a recap on plans in DC right now and how you can help. It’s not too late to get involved – go to refusefascism.org and sign up.
Then we share comments from Sunsara Taylor on some of the latest developments and her response to movement leaders who advocate focusing on the midterm elections now, alongside extremely relevant remarks from Sen. Elissa Slotkin (a former CIA analyst, now the junior Senator for MI) that she gave at the Brookings Institution’s Knight Forum on Geopolitics.
Plus: actress Frances Fisher, a student taking off from school to participate in Nov 5, Rep. Oye Owolewa (shadow congressman for D.C.), veterans Ralph and Justice all talk about why you should join them in taking to the streets and demanding Trump Must Go Now starting Nov. 5.
Get on a bus to DC for Nov 5 (7 locations still have tickets available).
Text NOTRUMP or SUPPORT to 855-755-1314, follow @RefuseFascism on social media (@RefuseFashizm on TikTok) and our YouTube channel: @Refuse_Fascism. Support:
- patreon.com/refusefascism
- donate.refusefascism.org
- Venmo: Refuse-Fascism
- Buy merch
Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown
Episode 268 The Countdown to Nov 5 and Unrelenting Nonviolent Protest
Sun, Nov 02, 2025 2:23PM • 32:02
Sam Goldman 00:22
Welcome to Episode 268, of the Refuse Fascism podcast, a podcast brought to you by volunteers with Refuse Fascism. This is Sam Goldman, one of those volunteers and host of the show. Refuse Fascism works to unite all who can be united to drive out the Trump fascist regime through mass, relentless, nonviolent resistance. Today, we’re three days out from the November 5 launch of determined, nonviolent, sustained resistance demanding the removal of the Trump fascist regime.
This is a mass convergence in Washington, D.C. We’ll be flooding D.C. at 11:00 a.m. at the Washington Monument for a rally and march. So if you haven’t gotten your bus tickets, go do that. There’s a link in the show notes, or visit RefuseFascism.org. While you’re there, be sure to check out the list of partners and resources there too. This effort is initiated by Refuse Fascism, but is welcome to any and all participation. So if you’re with a group that hasn’t yet partnered, while you’re on the website, go sign up.
In this episode, we’ll take on Trump resuming nuclear testing and the notion that our best chance is to trounce this regime in the midterms, to trounce the Republi-fascists in the midterms. You’ll hear from diverse perspectives and backgrounds on why you — yes, you! — need to change your plans to be in D.C. at the Washington Monument 11:00 a.m. on November 5th, the one year anniversary of the Trump election, or to come as soon as you can. Yes, take off work. Yes, take off from school. And if you absolutely can’t be there, donate as much as you can to this effort, and [either way,] spread the word to get all your East Coast peeps there.
Every day this fascist regime remains in power, the danger deepens. This week, Trump announced he’s preparing to resume nuclear testing, bragging that he’ll “Show the world what American power really means.” His administration is cutting off food aid for millions, including children and seniors, while blaming immigrants and trans people for the suffering they’re inflicting. He is purging the courts and federal agencies of anyone who won’t obey him, and he’s mobilizing his fascist goons to, “defend Trump” as he moves to steal the next election. Fascism isn’t coming, it’s here.
That’s why, starting Wednesday, November 5 — this Wednesday — we need to flood into Washington, D.C. to launch a sustained, mass, nonviolent protest demanding: Trump Must Go Now! No, this isn’t a one day march. It needs to be the beginning of the fall of the Trump fascist regime; a protest that can unite the courage of millions, awaken the sleeping giant that is the tens of millions of us who know in our bones that this regime is illegitimate. But that only happens if we make it real, and to do that, we need to raise $64,000 in the next three days to fund this launch, to bring the busses of people to D.C., to have the stage, the sound, the posters, the banners, the digital ads, the medics, the food, the water — all of it that’s needed to launch not just a day of protest, but relentless mobilization in the seat of power.
Whether this moment becomes the spark that changes history depends on what all of us do right now. So if you believe humanity cannot live another day under this fascist regime, go now to RefuseFascism.org and hit that donate button. Give what you can, as much as you can, and share the call. Again RefuseFascism.org, hit the donate button, check the show notes or text support to (855)755-1314 and you’ll get the link to give. Thank you so much for all your support.
Trump’s nuclear escalation is riddled with lies and endangers humanity’s very existence. Co-initiator of Refuse Fascism, Sunsara Taylor breaks it down.
Sunsara Taylor 04:51
First off, Trump is lying when he says other countries are testing nuclear weapons. Russia explicitly said they are not testing nukes, and neither the U.S. nor Russia have tested nukes since the Cold War. Trump is openly violating a de facto moratorium on nuclear testing. Second, Trump is lying when he says the U.S. has more nukes than Russia. This may seem like a lesser lie, except that it’s covering over the fact that when Trump escalates in the nuclear realm, it is likely to provoke Russia, who has even more nukes, to escalate as well. If these two countries ever get into a nuclear war, this will destroy the whole world.
On top of this, experts have repeatedly emphasized that there is no need to detonate nuclear weapons to test them. They have other sophisticated means to do this. So the only reason to test nuclear weapons is to intimidate and threaten and escalate the confrontation with their nuclear rivals. And on top of all of this, the fact is that thousands of people in this country and probably millions around the world, have died from the diseases and cancer and other things caused by nuclear fallout, caused by nuclear testing. So the question is: How much longer are you going to sit back and let this fascist tyrant sit with his finger on the nuclear trigger threatening all of humanity’s future and very existence? Join us, November, 5th, 11:00 a.m. on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. to launch a nonviolent movement that does not stop until we drive this fascist tyrant from power.
Sam Goldman 06:22
Think our best chance is to wait and see? or dig all in to trounce this regime a year from now, in the midterms? Listen to Senator Elissa Slotkin speaking on Trump’s authoritarian playbook, and then listen to Sunsara Taylor’s response to Ezra Levin, co-founder of Indivisible, and an invitation that she gives to join Refuse Fascism and many others in D.C. on November 5th 11:00 a.m. at the Washington Monument.
Elissa Slotkin 06:54
In 2025 homeland threats aren’t being defined by the Pentagon or based on what the intelligence community deems our greatest threats. They are being determined by one man, Donald Trump, and Donald Trump alone. He is showing the world just how willing he is to use force against his enemies. Our system is set up to give the president, any president, real power to make decisions on national security and foreign policy. That’s because when it comes to keeping us safe from attack, a commander in chief needs the power to make quick decisions.
As someone who worked in both a Republican White House and a Democratic White House, I saw these critical decisions made up close. You need the power to act when it’s about life and death, but Trump has laid out a whole lot of enemies that are American citizens, and if he’s willing to use lethal force against enemies abroad, as we’ve been seeing, what’s stopping him from using lethal force against enemies here at home? That question should chill every American to the bone. I’m giving the speech today because I believe that’s exactly the plan.
I believe that Trump is ready to bring the full weight of the federal government against Americans he perceives as enemies. Why? Because he has one goal: Making sure that he and his ilk never have to give up power. Now to be clear, I don’t say this lightly, but I think between the strikes in the Caribbean, his efforts to identify domestic terrorists, and his deployment of force in American cities, that seems to be where we’re headed. So I want to start with what’s happening in the Caribbean.
Let’s review the bidding. Since early September, Trump administration has announced attacks on 14 ships. They’ve killed 57 people. The Trump administration notified Congress that we as Americans are in armed conflict with a number of cartels, which they have called designated terrorist organizations. They argue that the strikes are fair game because the boats are filled with drugs being smuggled into American cities. On the surface, this makes sense to a lot of Americans, and I’m actually sympathetic to going after these types of groups, given what drugs do to Michiganders every day.
But here’s what’s different about the strikes and what’s precedent setting. The President and Secretary Hegseth are refusing to tell the American people who we are fighting. They won’t tell us the names, and they won’t tell us why they’re being targeted. A few weeks ago, the Senate Armed Services Committee, the committee I sit on, received a briefing on these strikes. During the briefing, members from both sides of the aisle asked the Defense Department for the name and number of the organizations that the United States is currently at war with. They refused to provide it. We asked for a copy of the memo from the Justice Department that lays out the legal case for these strikes. They refused to provide it.
Whatever our differences are these days, I think it’s safe to say that the American people deserve to know who we are at war with. Especially if people are being killed in our name. Just for reference, for those of us who worked on the global war on terror, we named the groups we were going after — think about al Qaeda or ISIS. Congress knew the name of every targeted group. The administration at the time provided the intelligence that justified going after these groups and why it was legal to do so. But as much concern as I have about the Caribbean strikes, it’s nothing compared to my concern concern over Trump’s full reorientation towards the “enemy within.”
That reorientation has major implications for his use of force inside the United States. Last month, the president quietly put out an Executive Order directing the Department of Justice to create a list of “domestic terrorist organizations.” The Order lays out a broad definition: groups that are accused of anti Americanism, anti capitalism, anti Christianity, or hostility towards those who hold, “traditional American views on family, religion or morality.” These groups don’t have to be violent to get themselves on the list. The Order suggested that the DOJ could look at chat groups, in person, meetings, social media and even schools.
To be clear, U.S. law on domestic terrorism is squishy, mostly because of the First Amendment, but it seems clear from his own Order that Trump plans to see how far he can stretch the law before someone tells him no. And if the administration won’t publicly name drug cartels in the Caribbean, you can bet that they’re not going to tell you the name of this new list of domestic terrorist organizations — only this time, the secret lists are not made up of drug traffickers in international waters, it’ll be Americans on American streets and in American homes.
So let’s play it out. What happens to the people on the secret list? The next logical step is that the President would use the full power of the federal government to target those American citizens. In theory, people on this list could be wiretapped, their homes could be searched, or they could be arrested just for disagreeing with President Trump’s agenda. I never thought I’d have to lay this out about my own government. This is the kind of stuff that is fundamentally un-American and strikes at the heart of who we are as a people. We’ve already seen anecdotal evidence that this is happening. Trump has created at least two “weaponization working groups” — his name — that bring together people from across the federal government, including the intelligence community, to go after Trump’s perceived enemies.
As a CIA officer, the idea that intelligence officers could be asked to target Americans turns my stomach, and it would shift us into a modern day surveillance state. Turning the federal government against Trump’s enemies goes hand in hand with his use of force in American cities, both federal law enforcement and the military. As of today, the President has attempted to deploy more than 7,000 National Guard members across five cities, including right here in Washington. In August, the administration ordered the creation of two new National Guard units, a standing quick reaction force that can deploy anywhere in the country, and then separately, National Guard units in all 50 states focused on quelling so called civil disturbances.
At this point, Trump has been very clear about his intent. At Quantico, speaking as Commander in Chief, he instructed his military brass to use cities as “training grounds,” and many times he’s floated the idea of invoking the Insurrection Act so that military units can raid, detain and arrest Americans. The President has already deployed ICE and other federal law enforcement to these same cities across America. In some cases, these federal officers are playing fast and loose with their tactics, which sooner or later could lead to a deadly escalation.
The videos out of Chicago are shocking. Federal agents pulling their weapons on highways, firing tear gas into neighborhoods right before a Halloween parade, injuring and even killing civilians. Many are masked, not wearing uniforms, and driving unmarked cars. For those of us who served abroad, it feels like another country, and it’s only a matter of time before things get worse. By my estimation, we’re about two weeks away from a bloody incident that spirals out of control. This is just the kind of incident that Trump wants to justify more force coming in.
So what’s the end game on all this? If the President is going to fundamentally redefine the use of force in America, what’s it all for? What I’m about to say, and my theory of the case, is something I never imagined saying. I believe Trump is reshaping the country to hold on to power. Trump is following the same playbook as almost every authoritarian in history. The playbook is: First get elected to address legitimate issues — in our case, the cost of living — once in office, surround yourself with people loyal to you, accumulate power and influence, and then start using it against your perceived enemies.
But here’s the kicker: There comes a time in every authoritarian playbook where you hit a tipping point. You accumulate so much power that you realize if you ever lose and your opponent gets elected, they could use that very power against you, so you hold onto it with everything you have. That seems to be Trump’s approach right now. From everything we’ve seen so far, the Caribbean strikes, the list of domestic terrorists, military and law enforcement deployments across our American streets, he seems to be laying the groundwork to stay in power.
There are two ways this can happen, both straight out of the same authoritarian playbook. The first: A scenario in which Trump finds a pretext, invokes the insurrection act and tries to impose martial law. Elections, therefore could be canceled, or if they happen, he could surround polling places with military and federal law enforcement to intimidate voters.
The second option is harder to track, but can still swing an election: Labeling opposition groups, candidates and elected officials as terrorists or criminals and going after the infrastructure that allows for competitive elections. For instance, Trump could use the IRS to make it impossible for Democrats to fundraise. He could sue left leaning organizations and sow disinformation about our elections. He could discredit, defund and silence his opposition until they have no chance of winning an election. The point is, there is more than one way to destroy an election.
There’s more than one way to lose our democracy. I’m popping a flare today because we’re in danger of that happening here at home. Let me just say again, I am not an alarmist. Some of you in this room have worked with me directly. You know that I don’t say things casually. I want to tell you that… why I’m making the point of saying it today. Think back to April of 2020. That was the first time Trump started tweeting about election fraud in the 2020 election — that if he lost it could only be because of fraud. I was in the House of Representatives at the time. I remember being shocked, but back then, I was pretty polite about it. I sent a bunch of letters to the administration, I talked about it in hearings, but I didn’t make enough of a stink about it at the time.
Fast forward to January 6, 2021 as rioters stormed the Capitol, I barricaded myself in my office and looked for something I could use as a weapon. The thing I thought was unthinkable was happening. I had a failure of imagination back then, but my imagination is working just fine now, and I’m not going to make the same mistake. But here’s what Trump hasn’t planned for: the will of the American people. Americans have an internal barometer for things that sound and smell authoritarian. I’ve seen this in Michigan, where even ardent Trump supporters don’t like what they’re seeing on their phones. That should give us hope, and there’s still time to turn the tide.
First, Congress needs to reclaim our power like yesterday over the use of force. To my Republican colleagues, I’m looking at you. In the spirit of John McCain, we need to start pushing back where we don’t agree on how force is being used. Leadership is about the actions you take, not the things you say behind closed doors. To that end, I’m introducing a bill, the No Troops in Our Streets Act that gives Congress the ability to immediately end a military deployment in an American city. To the military: You too have a critical role to play. According to the law, there is such a thing as an illegal order, and military does have the ability, though difficult, to push back.
Because in the choice between loyalty to the Constitution and loyalty to one man, there is only one right answer, and every one of you has taken that oath. To our veterans: You can also exercise your political power to call out Trump’s dangerous use of our military. I saw a lot of veterans show up at the No Kings rally. Don’t ever underestimate the power of your voice and how impactful it can be when you specifically speak up. And let me just say: If there are veterans out there that want to get involved in a positive way, DM me — we’re getting the band back together.
To our state leaders, you have a responsibility to hold the line, protect the integrity of our elections and withstand the pressure that the Trump administration, is already starting to apply. Ordinary citizens can help on this score. We can help stiffen the spines of people at home, your local elections are going to be more important than ever. To regular Americans: You can also speak out about what you’re seeing and organize peacefully against it. Throughout history, grassroots movements have been the only thing that have pushed back on government overreach. And lastly, to everyone listening and watching: Don’t give up the ship. Generations of us have fought against impossible odds to build the country we have today. I am living proof of that as a female Senator. I would not be here if generations of women before me had not fought for literally 100 years to get the right to vote. We don’t have the luxury of deciding that this is too hard. This is the country we all love. Our country needs us right now. It is our moment to step up. Thanks so much for having me. Appreciate you.
Ezra Levin 21:16
There is not a solution other than 1) building up the kind of massive wave necessary to overcome the voter suppression and any other shenanigans they pull next year, and 2) making sure that every single Democrat that comes into power once we do have a trifecta again, supports expanding the court, adding term limits and adding ethics reforms.
Sunsara Taylor 21:38
Okay, three things wrong and one solution. First off: No, Ezra, you’re not going to have some overwhelming Democratic victory in 2026 that Trump’s going to respect. The man incited an insurrection, he pardoned the insurrectionists, he’s already openly gerrymandering the next elections, he’s sending in his federal thugs to monitor — as in, do a test run of election suppression — in two Democratic states next week, they’ve installed 18 election deniers to be part of statewide monitors of the next elections. They are already stealing the next elections. They are not handing over power. Just stop with that.
Number two: This imaginary Democratic trifecta. Biden had it when he was first president. He had both the Senate and the House Majority Democrat — yes, slim — but they didn’t do any of these things; expanding the court and doing ethics reform. The Democratic Party… that’s not in their nature. We could get into that more deeply some other time, but it is also make believe.
Third thing that’s wrong: This is not the only way. All over the world, people have risen up in mass, sustained, nonviolent outpourings to drive out hated regimes. It has happened all over the world. Your people, Indivisible, have talked about it on your webinars. We have called for it. We are organizing for it. It begins November 5th. You know about it, or you ought to know about it, because we’ve written to you many times about it. You should throw in with this. This is the only chance humanity has. There are tens of millions of us.
You correctly called them into the streets for No Kings Day. We showed our numbers. We showed our power. Now we need to show up in Washington, D.C., in such undeniable numbers here, at the seat of power, that we create the kind of profound political crisis that causes the shifts and realignments within the halls of power, and every other institution, such that Trump is actually removed. That is the hope that humanity has. November 5th, everyone needs to get to D.C., 11am on the National Mall, and we come back again and again, we do not stop until Trump is gone. Ezra, you’re invited.
Sam Goldman 23:46
No, Trump is not all powerful. No, fascist consolidation is not inevitable. But look, fascism is upon us right fucking now. Masked men with a budget bigger than the military of many countries is hunting people down, kidnapping them and disappearing them. We’ve gotta face this reality. This is fascism. We’ve gotta make our plans, change our lives — where we devote our time, our energies and resources accordingly. So with that, here are voices in support of the November 5th Launch of the Trump Must Go Now sustained mass mobilization in Washington, D.C. You’ll hear from actress Francis Fisher, Fordham student Daniel, D.C. rep Oye Owelawa, and Ralph, and Justice, both military veterans. Have a listen in that order.
Frances Fisher 24:40
Hey, Francis Fisher, here. It’s Halloween, and on November 5th, there is going to be a mass peaceful protest in Washington, D.C. that’s going to stay there until we get this motherfucker out of the White House, including his entire cabinet. Go to Refuse Fascism for more information. Now, because it’s Halloween, I’ve already got my candy, but I’m gonna go back out now and get food, because I know people who are going to be trick or treating here need to feed their families, and I’m gonna do my part. Refuse fascism!
Daniel 25:17
The reason why I feel so passionately about this is because among people, especially my age, there’s a common misunderstanding that history is a monolith; that it’s greater than any one person. But I don’t see it that way. I see it as something that’s alive, that can be written and rewritten by individuals just as much as governments, and every single one of us has the opportunity to decide to be one of those individuals who writes history. As we speak, millions of Americans are witnesses. Are witnessing people, Americans, being kidnapped and taken off the streets by ICE while Trump demolishes the East Wing of the White House.
That’s history, and it’s being written right in front of our eyes, as we speak. And if they’re willing to write history, then I feel like so should we. That’s the beauty of large scale nonviolent protest, is that it creates a permission structure for everyone on the sidelines to rise up to insert themselves back into America’s story, and to say, if you’re going to put pressure on us, we’re going to meet you there, or to put more pressure right back on you. And I think that’s what November 5 in Washington D.C. means to me, and I think that’s why we should all be there.
Oye Owelawa 26:17
2025 has been an incredibly difficult year for us Americans. We’ve seen the Trump administration become authoritarians — use fascist ways, not only suppress our way of living, reduce our quality of life, but also end our freedom of speech. We’re seeing censorship of all people who disagree with this president in a way that is not American, is against our Constitution, our ideals. Donald Trump wants to intimidate us into silence and make sure that he has no opposition that can be heard of. But we Americans, we have been standing up all year.
We just passed the No Kings Day rally, where thousands, if not millions, of people roamed the streets all throughout America, bringing truth to power. Well, here at the nation’s capital, we’re gonna have our own event as well. The organizers behind Refuse Fascism are coming together on November 5 to say: End of this administration. We must remove the authoritarian in power and end fascism in America to make sure we can go back to a time where people can respect each other, can have civil discourse, and not feel threatened by the rule of power.
On November 5th, at 11:00 a.m., join me and the organizers of Refuse Fascism in front of the Washington Monument, where we will bring truth to power, where we will rally throughout the streets of D.C. and make sure we bring an end to this American nightmare. Donald Trump has only been back in office for ten months, it seems as if he’s trying to rip away the very fabric of this country. It’s time for USD to take it back. It’s time for US to stand up. It’s time for US to have a continued fight for our own freedom. Freedom isn’t free, and we must fight to preserve what we have. So join me, the people behind Refuse Fascism, and all other change agents, as you take the streets again to make sure Trump understands that he must go, and the authoritative, fascist regime must go with them as well. See you soon.
Sunsara Taylor 28:16
So I’m here with Justice and Ralph. Justice, tell us what branch of the military you were in.
Justice 28:20
I was in the U.S. Navy.
Sunsara Taylor 28:22
And Ralph, how about yourself? And how long?
Ralph 28:24
I’m 20 year veteran, retired from the U.S. Navy.
Sunsara Taylor 28:28
And you’re both throwing in with the November 5th mobilization for the fall of the Trump fascist regime, beginning Wednesday, November 5th. Why is it especially important for military veterans to be part of this?
Ralph 28:39
There’s several reasons. Number one: One of the first things they did is gutted veteran benefits. And then after they gutted veteran benefits, they started kidnapping Black and brown people off the streets. In addition to that, they raised tariffs. Now people that used to live paycheck to paycheck can’t even live to paycheck to paycheck. They’re losing their homes, their cars and everything else. Now, the military is sinking boats off the coast of Venezuela, killing people without investigations afterwards to find out, did we hit our target? This is totally against maritime law.
Justice 29:14
When we took our oath to U.S. Navy — any military officer or enlist who took an oath — they took an oath to protect and serve the people of this country, not to terrorize them, not to tread upon their rights and way of life. When we’re not in uniform, when they’re not in uniform, they’re citizens themselves. So to have things completely 180, and now the guns are on each other, it’s just completely unacceptable, and nothing that any of us ever signed up for.
Sunsara Taylor 29:45
For those who are wondering: Should I get involved? I’m scared. What’s it going to be like? — What do you want to say to them?
Justice 29:50
My first thing would be: Don’t be scared. They want us to feel terrorized. They want us to be scared. I’ve been out here in D.C. since September 25. The people are just like you and me, they’re all the same. They’re going through the same things, except they have soldiers on their streets, daily — bored soldiers who are also wondering: What am I doing here, other than following orders? orders to waste taxpayer dollars and strike terror in the people that I’m supposed to be protecting and serving. So come out here. Come one, come all. This is the time to stand up, and D.C. is the place to do it.
Ralph 30:25
Trump Must Go Now because he continues to destroy our country. Every veteran through across our nation. Come up here. Join Refuse Fascism in the streets of D.C. Connect with your veteran brothers at the Veteran Brothers’ tent in Columbus Circle in front of Union Station.
Sunsara Taylor 30:42
Alright. Thank you both so much.
Justice 30:43
Thank you.
Sam Goldman 30:45
Thanks for listening to Refuse Fascism. Please share this episode, rate and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. Drop a comment on our socials or YouTube. Every share helps build this fight. We are so grateful to our patrons who keep this show going and growing. Join us today at Patreon.com/RefuseFascism.
Follow us on all the socials, including Bluesky, @RefuseFascism, on Tiktok @RefuseFascizm, where ‘fascism’ is spelled F-A-S-H-I-Z-M. So much gratitude to Mark Tinkleman, Richie Marini and Lina Thorne for producing the show. Until next time, In the Name of Humanity, We Refuse to Accept a Fascist America! I’ll see you in D.C. on Wednesday, November 5. Let’s go. Let’s drive this regime from power!